New shock combo more difficult to pull?

[-AEnubis-]

The thing you gotta understand though, T2A is that making those changes to the core doesn't make "standing combos more effective" in a direct way. It makes them more neccessary to ensure you hit them.

By doing so, it makes those who do standing combos, easy targets. These discussions were never had in UT. No one really bitched greatly about the combo, without basically being told they were new, and needed to learn it.

Quake is different because the rail gun as wicked switch away time. You can't shoot with something else until another rail is up. That puts you at risk for shooting that rail. Forces you to take better shots, and spam less.

About Hitscan & pixel frags:

If epic didn't want this game to be riddled with pixel frags, and long range beam spam crap like it is, then they wouldn't have included brightskins.

@nutella: yes, I was speaking solely of 2kx.

 

[f.sardis]

sard, again, your ideas are all bad and you're not even taking everything into consideration. Yes, making players bigger in UT2004 would make hitscan more powerful. Duh. Who cares? That's not the point. You cannot make the same claim about UT2007 at all. This is a completely different game, a game in which we were promised a new scale proportion between players and maps. They're not taking UT2004-scale maps and putting UT-scale players in it, FFS. If they pull it off, which, judging by the videos they've shown thus far, I think they will, we should see an overall scale like UT again and everything will be balanced and have an equal chance at being powerful in more situations.

I haven't been showing up to FragBU the past few weeks but I think I will tomorrow just to see how awesome you are.

Also, people don't give a f*ck about them changing the minigun because, well, no one gives a f*ck about the minigun. Everyone would boycott Epic if they said they were taking out the shock. Guaranteed.

judging from the way you defend the weapon, i think you are just a stand combo and shock beam spam style player.
thats ok. good for you.
why would people give a **** for losing the shock rifle? what is so great about it? there is absolutely nothing original in this weapon. it makes the same effect as laser guns in star wars and it has always been the most controversial weapon in the series.
maybe you trust epic will fix it. I dont.
you want a new idea for a shick replacement? easy. how about a hitscan gun with a low power primary but high rof and a more powerful secondary with splash and slow rof?
there, problem sorted.

 

[kafros]

to sardis:

As you cannot have tetris without the 4inline piece you cannot have UT without flak or SR.

The only time I can think of UT without shock is on April's 1st while playing a mutator that replaces SR with a 'Pink Ponny' launcher.

P.S. there seems to be a second flame war in preparation in this thread
T2A VS sardis
fight!

 

[BadAss84]

Sorry to spam, but i just need to laugh at sardis..



I agree with T2A

 

[nuttella]

If epic didn't want this game to be riddled with pixel frags, and long range beam spam crap like it is, then they wouldn't have included brightskins.

Epic included brightskins? Or is that sarcasm?

 

[Kharnellius]

there is absolutely nothing original in this weapon.

Sorry to spam, but i just need to laugh at sardis..

x2 :tup:

Epic included brightskins? Or is that sarcasm?

Yeah, they sorta did. They had it where you can force team color skins in DM which brightens them up a bit but still isn't that much of an improvement.

So I have a feeling it's a little bit of both.

 

[Kharnellius]

About Hitscan & pixel frags: I have said before and say it again:

If EPIC wants to bring the fight back to close quarters, they can make the damage of SR & LG inversely proportinal to the distance. This I think is way more effective than tweaking ROF or absolute damage.

Hmm good idea. Perhaps ShR should have the dmg reduction and the LG doesn't. That way it makes the LG a little more worthwile for long range attacks.

If they DO do that then they gotta make sure they don't completely kill the ShR though. Make it so it decreases but then hits a min of 10 dmg so at least you still hit stuff.....just with a rather weak beam.

 

[Deadmeat]

Quake is different because the rail gun as wicked switch away time. You can't shoot with something else until another rail is up.

UT'99 actually had a similar system (I think I already posted this in another thread but I'm gonna repeat myself). Most weapons in UT'99 you couldn't change weapon until the weapon you had just fired was ready to shoot again - waiting for a new flak shell or rocket to be loaded or the shock rifle to 'recharge (for wont of a better description)'.

All these suggestions on how to make the shock rifle 'better' are based on how to improve it based on the UT2003/4 gameplay style. That style is changing in UT2007 and what might have made it better in UT2003/4 may not work at all in the new game. The same can actually be said for some changes that were made to the weapons from UT'99 to UT2003/4 - the improvements made were what would have made the weapon more balanced in UT'99 but because the also changed the gameplay style they didn't really work so well in UT2003/4.

 

[nuttella]

I thought the switch time was fixed. I don't notice that you can switch away from mini any faster than rockets.

 

[Deadmeat]

I thought the switch time was fixed. I don't notice that you can switch away from mini any faster than rockets.

Thats because the minigun had a kinda of 'spin down' time once you stopped shooting - it took a second or two before you could fire again, I guess about the same amount of time it took to load a rocket.

 

[neilthecellist]

judging from the way you defend the weapon, i think you are just a stand combo and shock beam spam style player.
thats ok. good for you.
why would people give a **** for losing the shock rifle? what is so great about it? there is absolutely nothing original in this weapon. it makes the same effect as laser guns in star wars and it has always been the most controversial weapon in the series.
maybe you trust epic will fix it. I dont.
you want a new idea for a shick replacement? easy. how about a hitscan gun with a low power primary but high rof and a more powerful secondary with splash and slow rof?
there, problem sorted.

Do you come across a weapon everyday that fires cores that you can shoot later and create series-like explosions with? How about pretty violet looking booms that create a misty look in your vision? That's the shock rifle. If it's been repeated in other games, it hans't been repeated to an exact extent as UT.

 

[gregori]

Its not even a laser gun in the conventional sense, its a plasma shockwave weapon! Look at its original incarnation the ASMD from Unreal.

Its function is pretty unique compared to most Scifi FPS. If you are going to get rid of it, thats okay, but whatever replaces it better be a hell of a good weapon!

Any imaginative suggestions?

 

[Bullet10k]

I don't believe it's the power of mini that bothers people now, just the annoyance.

Yea, I think of it more of like a psycholigical weapon, it's so annoying it makes you panic and ****s up your aim and strategy and everything lol.

But I got over that lol I just pretend it will take a long time until I'm dead with the mini (which is kind of true).

 

[-AEnubis-]

Epic didn't include the neon glowstick skins to which I refer. Yes, that was thick sarcasm.

Yes, UT was similar to quake in weapon switch time respect, but some weapons still switched faster then others, that's why I primarily used shock/link/translocator. They switched the fastest. If weapon damages go back up, closer to hardcore mode in UT, they will have to limit switch times, so's to put more emphasis on selecting the right weapon for the right situation, and not leaving you the option to switch 3 times in one second, because you "weren't sure."

Yes, I'm sure a lot of these factors will change, and half of the stuff most of these people fear won't be issues, because of other changing factors they didn't think about.

I still am having trouble believing the ludicrousy in sardis's statements. Which is why I haven't yet made any really verbally bashing comments to the statements he's made on one of the most popular weapons ever to grace any FPS. This weapon has had a cult following ever since the discovery of the combo, and it's popularity can only be denied by someone who's just started playing any Unreal franchise game in the past year, and started posting in forums even later then that.

The only other weapon I can think of as being similar in popularity, but was much more controversial until recently, is CS's L96A1 clone, the AWP.

 

[neilthecellist]

I still am having trouble believing the ludicrousy in sardis's statements. Which is why I haven't yet made any really verbally bashing comments to the statements he's made on one of the most popular weapons ever to grace any FPS. This weapon has had a cult following ever since the discovery of the combo, and it's popularity can only be denied by someone who's just started playing any Unreal franchise game in the past year, and started posting in forums even later then that.

I second this. The shock rifle is unique, and it sure as hell isn't found in other games in terms of replication 100%, maybe their replicas in other games are like shock rifles, but like I implied earlier, there isn't going to be a 100% match.

The only other weapon I can think of as being similar in popularity, but was much more controversial until recently, is CS's L96A1 clone, the AWP.

The L96A1 is popular? It's an anti-tank sniper rifle... Well, maybe the shock rifle is too. And in popularity as well. ;-)

 

[f.sardis]

ASMD cult? popular gun?
i have been playing since unreal came out and i can tell one thing. ASMD isnt famous. its infamous, it always has been. everyone knows it cause they are either the ones spamming it or the ones suffering by the spamming. i can imagine of a better game without it.
and just to be fair here, all of you would buy 2007 even if the ASMD wasnt part of it. i have seen you guys play in closed maps like curse4 etc. i have seen T2A play curse4 last night. you get into tight maps and suddenly you do only half the frags that you can do on big maps. when hitscan doesnt apply you start losing the touch. i suppose thats why you all support the ASMD. if its gone you are all screwed big time.

 

[Kharnellius]

(Chevy Chase) Dusty: “What does that mean? Infamous?”
(Martin Short) Ned: “Ah, Dusty! Infamous is when you're more than famous! This guy El Guapo is not just famous, he's IN-famous!”

(Steve Martin) Lucky: “A hundred thousand pesos to do a personal appearance with this guy El Guapo, who is probably the biggest actor to ever come out of Mexico!”

Dusty: “Wow, the IN-famous? IN-famous?”

 

[Deadmeat]

ASMD cult? popular gun?
i have been playing since unreal came out and i can tell one thing. ASMD isnt famous. its infamous, it always has been. everyone knows it cause they are either the ones spamming it or the ones suffering by the spamming. i can imagine of a better game without it.
and just to be fair here, all of you would buy 2007 even if the ASMD wasnt part of it. i have seen you guys play in closed maps like curse4 etc. i have seen T2A play curse4 last night. you get into tight maps and suddenly you do only half the frags that you can do on big maps. when hitscan doesnt apply you start losing the touch. i suppose thats why you all support the ASMD. if its gone you are all screwed big time.

Rubbish.

The issue's with combo spamming have only really arisen in the UT2003/4's, and thats less to do with the weapon and more to do with the maps and altered gameplay mechanics.

 

[-AEnubis-]

You obviously haven't seen me play.

...and you still sound like somone who hasn't learned to use/counter it.

Two people I know give me hell with combos. Otherwise, I just hate shock beams.

 

[Ice Dragoon]

i dont see how people can be jumping in the air and pull a shock combo. that ball is just too small!