New DTAS

[frenchfrog]

First, thx Harper for burning your fingers

Ok, some minor issues:

1) on a vote reset, people will get the points for surviving a round
2) when a switch from fox to dtas append i think you lose your fox point

question:
is the "+1 for last kill" is for the winning kill or for the kill of the last guy alive?

 

[keihaswarrior]

I was playing dtas a lot today and I like the scoring system (I seemed to score well when I played well, so it works).

Problems:
1) When playing with 5 people on fox, the time would reset if a 6th person joined. This was very frustrating when you have been "out-foxing" the hunters for a long time and the timer is almost up.

I suggest allowing the gametype to immediately switch from fox to dtas only if more than 50% of the round time is remaining.

2) The default time limit is very high for dtas even on very small maps. 12 min on Stalingrad is waay too long, I'd rather have 5 min on such a small map. If the time limit is perfect, then 1 out of every 10 rounds or so should end with attackers running out of time. It is too long when AFK people can go get a bite to eat, come back and still finish the round (all while you are waiting by the flag btw).

 

[Nukeproof]

Scoring seems pretty good to me. I only experienced that "iamthechosenone" doesn't seem to work anymore (tried it several rounds but always the last joiner was placing)

 

[frenchfrog]

Also, is there a way to put the DTAS scoring on debugging mode so we can see the details of the points we get?

 

[Blitzschlag]

Yeah the command vor being/not being the Fox/FlagPlacer dont work anymore, i recognized that a month ago only forgot it

 

[{GD}Odie3]

Well, I hate these forums a Server Busy crap...

Any ways, I have NA DTAS upgraded to version 57. I also have changed DTAS to use map times to Infiltrations Game Round Time (in WebAdmin Rules). I am starting off with a Round Time of 9 minutes.

Lastly, I also think iamthechosenone is still not working (saw this in 56 and below). Would be really nice for this to work again.

 

[Harper [Jgkdo]]

1) on a vote reset, people will get the points for surviving a round

Ok I will remove it for reset voting. I was aware that it will be that way but didn't think anyone else would realize

2) when a switch from fox to dtas append i think you lose your fox point

Are you sure? There are only two ways to loose points (TK and rogue defender) and the score *should* be kept when changing gamemodes.

question:
is the "+1 for last kill" is for the winning kill or for the kill of the last guy alive?

Its for the winning kill aka last defender or last but one attacker.

1) When playing with 5 people on fox, the time would reset if a 6th person joined. This was very frustrating when you have been "out-foxing" the hunters for a long time and the timer is almost up.

The time is not really resetting. DTAS (the mutator) internally keeps a timer for each gamemode, so DTAS (the gamemode) gets x minutes and FOX gets x*FoxTimeFactor minutes. Every timer is only decreased when the proper gamemode is running. So in your case if DTAS is switched of again you only need to survive the remaining FOX time.

2) The default time limit is very high for dtas even on very small maps. 12 min on Stalingrad is waay too long, I'd rather have 5 min on such a small map.

Its possible to set a time limit for every map so you can decrease the time limit (or ask your favorite server admin about it) though personally I prefer a slow-paced gameplay and a strict time limit would put too much pressure on me

Lastly, I also think iamthechosenone is still not working (saw this in 56 and below). Would be really nice for this to workagain.

You are all right, I accidently broke it when adding the new functionality to iamnotworthy in 1.56.

[EDIT]
Debugging output would be too much spamming if displayed immediatly and saving it is incredible akward.

And something I would like to hear some comments and ideas on is a more detailed scoring for Foxhunt. Currently I think of points like:
+1 being within a certain radius of the fox at end of round (defender) (even if fox dies)
+2 surviving the round as the fox (in addtion to the standard +2 for surviving and winning)
additional +2 surviving by time
-4 dying as the fox while defenders are still alive
Everything else is covered by the kill scoring while killing the fox count as an objective kill.

Reasons for these scores are that the role of the fox should become a desireable postion in the team since currently most people don't feel comfortable by being a moving target and that a dumb fox should end up with a really bad score
[/EDIT]

 

[Harper [Jgkdo]]

I fixed the "mutate iamthechosenone" command and made sure a restarted round doesn't count as a survived round for any player.
In addition you now have a flaglike direction display to keep track of your fox so he won't get lost so easy

See first post for the new version.

 

[frenchfrog]

Once again, thx for the quick patch

2) when a switch from fox to dtas append i think you lose your fox point

Are you sure? There are only two ways to loose points (TK and rogue defender) and the score *should* be kept when changing gamemodes.

Ok, check the enclosed picture, i got 14 points after 9 rounds

now the actual 100% sure points I have:

+5 for round win
+5 (at least) for surviving (i got 4 death and we played 9 rounds)
+5 for the 2 objectives kills (one was the winning kill of the last round thus the +1)
+4 (at least) I was fox on a round and killed the 3 hunters (including the winning kill)
+3 (at least) I killed at least 2 attackers on a DTAS round (including the winning kill)

(and no TKs or flag capture)

absolute minimun score: 22, actual score 14.

Ok what append on that map:
-we switched from FOX to DTAS
-some player(s) on my team quit and rejoined later on.

What append? dunno but something seems to be wrong, that's the reason I asked for a debugging output.

[EDIT]
Debugging output would be too much spamming if displayed immediatly and saving it is incredible akward.

even if it's displayed in the console only for your own points? And only activated by a "mutate showScoringDebug" and a server side setting. (I know, I know, that it could be exploited but for debugging purpose it could be turn on on some DTAS server(s) *cough* jgkdo *cough* for a week or 2 )

And something I would like to hear some comments and ideas on is a more detailed scoring for Foxhunt. Currently I think of points like:
+1 being within a certain radius of the fox at end of round (defender) (even if fox dies)
+2 surviving the round as the fox (in addtion to the standard +2 for surviving and winning)
additional +2 surviving by time
-4 dying as the fox while defenders are still alive
Everything else is covered by the kill scoring while killing the fox count as an objective kill.

Reasons for these scores are that the role of the fox should become a desireable postion in the team since currently most people don't feel comfortable by being a moving target and that a dumb fox should end up with a really bad score
[/EDIT]

hmm, I really don't know, I like the first one cause the fox is almost like the flag and we already get a +1 for surviving/dying in flag radius but for the other 2, normally we play fox 2 on 2 or 1 on 1 which is pretty much a gamble +4/-4 for the fox.

I would also add that with the current scoring, a player doing is job could relatively easily finish with more than 20 points, thus the -2 for rogue defender (considering you would have probably got a kill thus -1) is pretty weak and not enough to encourage players to fall back when they fell the flag is in danger.

EDIT: Or add a new score "+2 for preventing a flag capture", this way people will accept to stay in flag radius instead of getting kill points.

 

[{GD}Odie3]

New version running on Odie3's FOX/DTAS Server

 

[Derelan]

How about at the end of each round, the text ticker says "Your score increased by X out of a possible Y last round." Or when you tk, it could say "-x points for teamkill."

 

[Nukeproof]

Good job Harper!

I have to think about Fox...

But doing a TK in range should be punished harder then normal TK. (since it drives the victim nuts)

On 'possible points': Thats pretty much a theoretical thing... If you killed everybody yourself while in range and capped the flag it'll be astronomical but not really achievable.

TK's are displayed and I did sadly experience: They do set you back

 

[ant75]

I think i've found a problem with the 'no negative score' rule, although i'm not complety sure to understand how it works so maybe i'm mistaken. Here it goes :
If a player does 2 tk's on the first round while his score is still zero, it won't affect his final score, whereas if he does those tk's on the last round, when his score is most likely to be more than 0, he will get the -8 penalty. I think it's unfair that tking on the first round doesn't have the same influence on your score as tking at the end of the game. A tk is a tk, so the logical solution is either to remove the point penalty for the tk, or accept negative scoring.

edit : i'm not sure i'm being clear, so in short : if you do a tk and THEN a capture, your score is 10. But if you do it in the opposite order, your score is 6, which is unfair. Someone correct me if i'm wrong on this.

 

[Cleeus[JgKdo]]

internally the scores are still negative - they are just not displayed

 

[Harper [Jgkdo]]

But doing a TK in range should be punished harder then normal TK. (since it drives the victim nuts)

You didn't happen to be one of the victims did you
Maybe another -1 but I don't know if it is really necessary.

How about at the end of each round, the text ticker says "Your score increased by X out of a possible Y last round." Or when you tk, it could say "-x points for teamkill."

As Nukeproof said the theoretical maximum score is quite high for example in a 6vs6 round one player can get 33 points as an attacker and 24 as a defender and you are not very likely to get anywhere near that score especially since you can't influence all scoring points by yourself but have to include others.
So don't bother too much about how many points you might have gained and getting frustrated that you not even get 50% of those. Rather concentrate on playing and you will get a good score automatically.

If a player does 2 tk's on the first round while his score is still zero, it won't affect his final score, whereas if he does those tk's on the last round, when his score is most likely to be more than 0, he will get the -8 penalty. I think it's unfair that tking on the first round doesn't have the same influence on your score as tking at the end of the game. A tk is a tk, so the logical solution is either to remove the point penalty for the tk, or accept negative scoring.

I think I will accept it. But I will display 0 for any negative score so it won't look ugly.

 

[Nukeproof]

Two observations on Score:

1.) I die early the round, didn't TK nor commit suicide...my team loses the round (think for both cases capture and elimination) and I have 1-2 Points less after the round.... don't remember a rule why this should happen.

2.) Sometimes my team got beaten up pretty bad (i.e. 2-5) but players individual score was a lot higher than the other teams... Of course I can easily make up scenarios where this happens... just felled kind of strange.

 

[frenchfrog]

1) small bug report: it seems rogue defender penality is given to dead players.

2) after further thinking on the fox survinving bonus points, i think it's not a bad idea (+1 or +2 like Harper porposed)

Harper:

What you think about me previous post of:

1) bonus for prevented capture (this way people will get rewarded to stay in flag radius) (only applicable once per round).

2) adding debug message on scoring with a server and client switch.

 

[Harper [Jgkdo]]

Sorry for not posting sooner, I had *a lot* to do the last two weeks.

You are right about dead defenders being punished if the flag is captured (One more reason to stay in range ). I will fix it in the next version.
About debug options to see what you got points for, it is not a good idea IMO. Saving the values and displaying them at the end of a round would require way too much code for a debug option and displaying the score gain immediatly is very distracting and allows players to confirm their kills.

A bonus for preventing a cap? I assume you mean that the 2 defenders get it when they stay within range and get 2 attackers in range. I will see what I can do about it.

 

[keihaswarrior]

Bugs:
The first round seems to always be TDM instead of FOX. We have to vote a reset to play FOX.

The flag spawned in the middle of nowhere during a FOX, DTAS switch. I only saw it happen once on Bocage.

Please don't allow FOX and DTAS to switch so easily. It is annoying to almost capture the flag but have it switch to FOX and vice versa. Please think about my request of having a time period in which the switch can happend, after that then the gametype is fixed.

 

[{GD}Ghost]

In regard to the new DTAS scoring system, how about a similar scoring system for EAS as well? One that includes points for areas secured/CDs captured/objectives destroyed....etc...etc.