1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

mutator needed for 2.9 ?

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by ant75, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. ant75

    ant75 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2001
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0
    While i wait for 2.9, one of my concern remains : kevlar vests. From the start i've been opposed to this idea, and i'd like to know if i'm the only one. I'm not bitching about how it'll imbalance gameplay or anything like that, because i'm sure the game has been tested long enough to have an almost flawless gameplay. But it's the "concept" of vests i don't like, for me it's just a disguised way to give the player a little more health, allowing him to play with less caution. What made me come to Inf in the first place is that it's a very intense and stressful game, a game where you can almost never take chances. The thrill i get when playing comes from the fact that i know i can die in a snap, without realizing what stroke me. I know vests make you slower, therefore less vulnerable in a way, but i prefer when everybody starts as a simple soldier, with only its weapon to make the difference. I don't like "rambo" fights, where you have to empty a whole clip on your enemy to put him down... I'm worried about vests spoiling what i like the most about this game. So i was wondering if anybody agrees with that, and if a mutator to disable vests wouldn't be welcome when 2.9 is released (perphaps it wil be one of the features of RAv3?).
     
  2. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    5,781
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me put it this way.
    RAv3 will not be disabling kevlar. ;)
     
  3. the_resistance

    the_resistance Gun in hand, ready to die!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    an excellent post

    Nice to see people voicing their concerns and opinions intelligently, and backing up their thoughts well.

    I for one must agree to a certain extent. INF has been designed to simulate a realistic tactical shooter, to the fullest extent possible. And one aspect I think it's done well with is making it hard to shoot/play while "ramboing" and perhaps the kevlar vest will bring some of the advantage back to that style. I certainly hope not.

    At the same time, the INF team has been VERY thorough and understands the community and themes around which the game was developed. With that in mind, I'm sure they have addressed these concerns of the kevlar vest possibly increasing the rushing population/style. Now, that's not to say that gamestyle should not be there, as IRL, those tactics exist TO SOME EXTENT. I think the team has been diligent in thwarting that style by increasing weapon-bob when running/jogging, decreasing running speed (I believe), and other tweaks. Certainly somebody who has played and tested 2.9 would be in a better position to address these issues.
     
  4. Cleeus[JgKdo]

    Cleeus[JgKdo] because respawns suck

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    even a LIIIa vest cannot do much against a 5.56x45mm in 2.9 as well as in RL

    vests are fine
     
  5. RaekwoN

    RaekwoN Infiltration Level Designer

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    0
    The vests in 2.9 deal with shrapnel and pistol rounds, nothing to worry about. They're also vulnerable from the side, much like their real life counterparts.

    As for worrying about gameplay problems, I think we've got that sorted after this long, don't you? :)
     
  6. SexPistol

    SexPistol New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    i rarely post here, just occasionally lurk and read. but, since the realism of 2.9 is in discussion, i wanted to ask a few questions that have been on my mind that hopefully someone can answer accurately.

    for the past few months i've been playing strictly RAv2 (and more recently RA286.) i'm to the point now where i'd rather not play the game at all than play vanilla. INF without RA, to me, is almost like playing CS now and i avoid it like the plague.

    this brings me to a few of the questions i have:

    GAMEPLAY
    1. will gameplay be slowed as it is in RA? (a) will the player literally be slower while running and (b) will you not be capable of running with your weapon shouldered?

    2. will weapon damage be more severe (and thus more realistic) as it is in RAv2 as opposed to standard INF?

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    basically, my question in a nutshell: i know that yurch intends to do a RAv3 and i'm very much looking forward to it. however, between the time INF 2.9 and RAv3 is released, will 2.9 itself be realistic enough to keep us hardcore RA players interested and involved?

    i'm sure the answer to these and more are in the beta log, but i was hoping possibly for a few in-depth responses...

    thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2003
  7. sublime

    sublime Cynic

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2000
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me get this straight. You're asking for solutions to problems that don't even exist? Weird.

    Vests are fine for all the reasons named here and a few more. They're well balanced.

    Game play is much slower than 2.86, yes. It it slower for a variety of reasons, including weapon handling, weapon movement, walk/jog/sprint speeds, and a plethora of other reasons. Some of them surprises. As far as weapon damage, RAv2 actually has less damage at range than 2.86. ;) There is a ~12% chance of getting killed when shot in RAv2, but the realism of that is up for debate (getting shot in the toe by a 9mm round should not kill you, ever. ;)).

    Anyway, 2.9 is realistic enough to satisfy most of the realism freaks on the beta team. Take that for what it's worth. Of course there's always something someone would do different. Can't please everyone 100%.
     
  8. Keganator

    Keganator White as Snow Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    5,262
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yay, suprises! :)
     
  9. kungpaosamuraiii

    kungpaosamuraiii HOVER TANKS

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe Beppo is quoted as saying that RAv2 appeared "fast and arcadish" or something along those lines compared to 2.9.

    That's enough for me.
     
  10. SexPistol

    SexPistol New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks sublime.

    i know that there are a ton of JgKdo players on the beta team (who obviously are all RA players.) so, if it's enough for them, i'm sure it'll be enough for me, too :)

    oh, and thanks for such a great mod! :D
     
  11. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    5,781
    Likes Received:
    0
    heh, you didn't say what range ;)
    Damage in RAv2 is 35% higher for most weapons, and this damage drops for distance based on the square of the velocity. It's usually quite a bit higher than 2.86 damage, unless you are talking shotgun pellets at 200m.
    As for toehits... it's UT! :p
     
  12. Saladin

    Saladin Fez Toting Warrior!

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    0
    can i throw a suggestion? has nothing to do with actually changing anything ingame...but the next Realaim, why not call it rav2.9?
     
  13. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    5,781
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because I might one day take up the (good) practice of actually naming successive versions independantly in the packagename :p
     
  14. Saladin

    Saladin Fez Toting Warrior!

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol i just thought its wierd to have inf 2.9 played wit something v3---- any way of knowing if its that big of a change from v2 that it needs be called v3?
     
  15. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2001
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    0
    So the way I see vest working are that A) the vest has so many points and B) bullets do not have thier potential to injure/kill damnpend by the vest? Ie: the vest loses 5 points and takes 5 points of the bullets total damage. This is the way it IS NOT done in 2.9, right? And I hope 2.9 isnt so slow its impossible to run across the street and not get killed 5 times over :p
     
  16. the_resistance

    the_resistance Gun in hand, ready to die!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    OpFor hit my concern right on with slow speed. I've always felt INF might be a little too accurate gunwise and I just hope that slowing the run/sprint speed won't allow even more chances for me running 10 across a road to be a sitting duck all the time.

    Seems to me in INF anybody can pick up the game and be dead-on if they just lineup the sites, which is much easier in a video game versus real life.

    Of course, it's got to playable and fairly easy because, afteall, it is JUST a game.

    Picky bastards....


    HEY SUB, your SIG KICKS ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. wrdaniel

    wrdaniel New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    just take a smokenade :) and watch out for claymores :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2003
  18. Cleeus[JgKdo]

    Cleeus[JgKdo] because respawns suck

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would say: judge the gameplay for yourself when it is out.
     
  19. keihaswarrior

    keihaswarrior New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Running across streets watched by snipers is not a smart tactic.

    Also the effectiveness of kevlar vests doesn't decrease when it is shot, unless two bullets hit in the same spot. The chance of two bullets hitting in the exact same spot is highly unlikely in a combat situation, so there is no reason to take the time to make a half-assed random chance model of it (remember no per-pixel hit detection in UT).
     
  20. sublime

    sublime Cynic

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2000
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    0
    Person 1: I hope it's slow enough...
    Me: It's slow enough.
    Person 2: I hope it's not too slow...
    Me: It's not too slow.

    Where's Goldilocks pondering if it's just right? ;)
     

Share This Page