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Monday's Videos

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by GuntiNDDS, May 16, 2006.

  1. os][ris

    os][ris New Member

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    I dont understand, what do you think DM-Carbonfire is? It's exactly the kind of "mock up" map you described....
     
  2. Gorzakk

    Gorzakk Scorpion Powah!

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    That the public could play at E3?
     
  3. Melvin

    Melvin Next Gen

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    It like to see some more footage of DM/CTF. I get tired of all the Onslaught-footage. I don't care that much of Onslaught, i want to see DM/CTF action.
     
  4. os][ris

    os][ris New Member

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    You are going in circles. I already stated why i THINK they didn't show a playable demo at e3.
     
  5. N1ghtmare

    N1ghtmare Sweet Dreams

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    O noes!
    No hands on demo!
    We will neva know what its liek!
    Theh might even do something horrid liek add mèlee weapons :eek:

    ;)
     
  6. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    You're mixing up singleplayer and multiplayer AI. The latter is infinitely harder to do and the Unreal series has from day one been noted for having the very best multiplayer bots in the genre. Steve actually became famous for AI with the groundbreaking Reaper Bot for Quake.
     
  7. Monster w/ 21 Faces

    Monster w/ 21 Faces Dear Dumb Police Officers

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    I've never found UT AI to be that challenging or that impressive. Not to mention that alot of the impressions the AI makes on you is down to the quality of the mappers botpathing.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2006
  8. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Are these really the best bots in the genre? They're retarded and their aim is completely unlike any human being (no reaction time and random cone-spread aim complete with lock-on and wallh4x). If they wanted them to be deadly, at least at close range, fine, I'll give them that. But as far as replicating an online environment with bots, I don't see it. I guess the fact that they can do the basics of ONS and AS is good, but as far as their core implementation for something simple like shooting people in a FFA... Blah. :eek:
     
  9. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    That's nice. It's still always been known as the best around. It's just not that simple to take an open environment and very complex movement and game situations and make a bot play like a human.

    It's challenging to newcomers and those who don't play online and that's really about all you want out of multiplayer bot AI without melting your CPU.

    You're thinking about singleplayer AI where the environments are relatively closed, scripting can be used, and the situations are tightly controlled.

    Stop for a second and think about how complex the game is in terms of movement, strategy, timing, aiming, prediction, and weaponry. Sure you could create bots that ran without pathing and thought and moved more like a human... but what kind of PC would run it?
     
  10. Gorzakk

    Gorzakk Scorpion Powah!

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    The AI in Halo 1 and for the squad in Republic Commando is the best I've seen. I've noticed bots in UT2004 do a few dumb things (getting in and out of vehicles without using them for instance).
     
  11. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Are you not talking about singleplayer?
     
  12. Gorzakk

    Gorzakk Scorpion Powah!

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    In Halo 1 you can play the campaign multiplayer, the covenant is still AI. I know how tricky AI is to program and Unreal AI is not bad at all. In fact in some ways its very impressive. I made a modded levi not so long back and the bots took to its many altered turrets like a fish to water. But its not the best IMO.
     
  13. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    You're still talking about the single player campain in co-op. That's different than bots that play a multiplayer game.

    In Halo, the bots are refined to a very small area. This means that their logic only needs to be very limited.

    In UT multiplayer, the bots are required to function in a large map with mulitple tasks and functions and responding to situations as the arise.
     
  14. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Yeah, you guys are comparing apples to oranges here. The requirements for AI in a singleplayer (or co-op) environment are utterly different from AI required to function as a human player in an open environment. It's not even close.
     
  15. Gorzakk

    Gorzakk Scorpion Powah!

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    As I said UT2004 AI is very impressive. Just saying its not the best AI I've seen in a game. I am just more cynical than most people about this I suppose. I dont have much confidence after UC2. :)
     
  16. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Well, I won't argue that it's not the best in any game. Even Half Life had pretty decent AI. My point is that the AI required for UT200x is vastly different than that required for games like Halo, Republic Commando, FEAR, and Half Life 2. You can't compare them because they aren't being asked to do the same things.

    What I'm saying is that it's the best of its kind. You couldn't take the AI from something like Half Life 2, plop it in an open environment for UT200x and expect it to shine either.
     
  17. ->Sachiel<-

    ->Sachiel<- New Member

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    I found the AI in UT2004 to be great personally, not because the bots were genious, but because the bots in every other game at the time were ****ing retarded by comparison.

    As for the hands on demo dilemma, the game is being released in early 2007 (according to steve polge), if they don't have much done that's because thay have many months to finish the game, and if they do have plenty done they shouldn't show it all now, the game demo should have the most shock value. Just look at UT2004, ONS-Torlan alone sold the product, not the previews or interviews, actually, noone truly knew what was so big about UT2004 and what makes it different from UT2003 until they played the demo, at which point it became apparent why it was a whole new game and not just an expansion (plus, I've never seen an expansion that adds more content than the original game [UT2003 was about 3gig, UT2004 with the ECE bonus pack is 7gig]). It's the whole "Psyched" idea, when someone complements or raves about something continuously, it builds up value, until the actual thing that the person was raving about can never actually live up to its hype, at which point it can only disappoint. If Epic showed EVERYTHING, or even let people play the game, there wouldn't be so much speculation or attention drawn towards the game as there is now (we wouldn't even be discussing this right now), and therefore, when the UT2007 demo is released it wouldn't be so special because everything in it was already known about and tried out. This period of uncertainty is exactly what Epic wants, Nietszhe said (I don't know how to spell his name), you do not know of happiness until you have experienced suffering, likewise, you do not know relief until you have worried. When you try to release a product with a bang, its hard to keep the hype up over six months than to boost the hype only for the last month. I remember when Halo when Halo was released, I have never heard of it until then but all of a sudden, within a fex weeks every person with an Xbox bought the game. Remember, halo was never "highly anticipated", it simply burst on the scene one day and decided, I will own all before me :D, and so it did. Hopefully UT2007 will have similar success.
     
  18. Killer-Joe

    Killer-Joe New Member

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    Those wondering about the quality of UT's bots need to compare them with the bots from games like Battlefield, Star Wars: Battlefront, and games like that. At least in Battlefield and Battlefront, the bots are terrible. UT bots are genius compared to them. See the bots from other multiplayer games and you will realise how good ut's bots are.
     
  19. Monster w/ 21 Faces

    Monster w/ 21 Faces Dear Dumb Police Officers

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    Farcry.

    But you can, especially in something like Garrys mod. Also what about the CS:S Bots? Or the BF2 AI?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2006
  20. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Alright... once again... you're talking singleplayer. While there are more paths to choose from in FarCry, you are still funneled in one of a few directions. If you don't look carefully, you might feel like you are in an open environment in FarCry... but you aren't. Also, the movement is pretty basic, there are no powerups or timing of any sort, and each soldier really only has one weapon.

    In UT2004 you've got completely open levels and high connectivity by design. You have multiple fire modes for 10+ weapons, a complex movement system, powerups timing, vehicle operation, objectives, and gametype dyamics (flags, nodes, etc). In CTF you have a translocator for crying out loud!

    Once again... you're not comparing like to like.
     

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