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Make People Like UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Fuzz, May 30, 2008.

  1. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Ohh have a little humour about yourself, you grumpy old git ;)
     
  2. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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    This is what I was trying to say. I used demorec and openal as examples, but I wouldn't care if those were the only things "missing." They aren't game-breakers (not even close), but the fact that they're basically missing is annoying. Annoying things add up really fast.

    For me, the #1 most annoying thing about UT3 is the online player counts (and that is a game breaker... some nights there isn't a single person pubbing in duel servers <150 ping). And as Grobut mentioned, this gives me reason to care about each of those features, because their exclusion has had a negative effect on player counts.

    Also, this idea of "well, 95% of UT players don't use x feature, so it's not worth our time implementing it" is a pretty terrible one. It may be alright for a few of really out-there additions, but if you use that excuse for a ton of things in the game, you're eventually going to piss off a lot more than 5% of your base. (The 5% that like demo rec aren't exactly the same 5% that like custom crosshairs, the 5% that like custom crosshairs aren't exactly the same group that like custom voicepacks, etc etc.)

    Well instead of just accepting that "no one knows whose fault it is" at face value, I'm actually using my brain and thinking about what the more likely scenario is. Considering that openAL in UT3 is broken on my realtek as well, it's not just a creative issue. And before you say "get new drivers for your crap realtek card," openAL works fine in UT2004 with my card. But sure, it's possible that epic has nothing to do with it.

    That's fair. I certainly don't want to imply that the game is unplayable or unmodable. If that's what my posts conveyed, that's my error. The game is playable, but UT3 v1.0 feels rushed, and is missing many features that people "depend" on. If you want to say UT3 was a finished game on release, that's fine, but would you at least admit that the game was rushed out of the door sooner than it should have been?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008
  3. pinnacle

    pinnacle New Member

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    QFT
     
  4. Sys-X

    Sys-X Commercialized Killer !!!

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    Many tl:dr ppl :>

    on topic:

    I can't see how you can make ppl like ut3. If enough ppl would like it the word would spread as a fire.
    Current situation; many displeased fans in this small community doesn't attract new players.

    Btw totally agreed with hilo_ :>
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008
  5. Entr0p1cLqd

    Entr0p1cLqd New Member

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    My word there are some extremely long posts in this thread. That was a lot to trawl through. I figured I might as well stick my oar in.

    I actually play UT3 at least once a week for at least an hour. Which is pretty good going considering how much I've got on in real life at the moment. The two things that really irritate the hell out of me are:
    1. Not being able to turn the taunts off.
    2. Actually getting into a game is painful.

    The first point actually stuns me. It's the one option I would have thought that they would have carried through from UT and 2K4 into UT3. I was stunned that it was not included. And it annoys me enough that I wrote a mutator to get rid of them. Except it doesn't work in MP mode. I've had PS3 players ask me to "cook it" for them as well; but I never did get it working.

    The second point is really just a matter of polish, or rather lack of it. I start UT3. I login, I then check my friends list to see who is playing (2 or 3 clicks). If there's no-one I've got in my list playing I then have a whole bunch of other clicks to make before I get to a server browser. And even then I would like an "all game-type option".

    I did go through a phase where I'd just check my friends list and then quit if no-one was playing. Finding a server was just too difficult. And even then the pings reported in the server browser seem to be completely random.

    Anyways, I've started ranting now so I'm going to stop. The game is great, but there are so many little niggles that get in the way of actually getting into a game. As someone has already said. It's not one thing but loads of little things.

    Still, I'm looking forward to the next patch. And I'm still playing the game.
     
  6. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    You would probably be surprised to know that I agree with you more than you are probably aware.

    I also notice all of the missing parts from UT3 that we have come to associate with FPS's, but I tend to look at it as the glass-half-full kind of guy.
    I have hopes that Epic will still deliver through patches and updates, like they have with previous titles.

    IMHO and it has been said before, from a technical perspective a lot of the issue with UT3 is that the engine wasn't up to the level of the game. A lot like UT2003. There is a large amount of functionality that is still being developed by Epic in UE3 that should make its way into future patches.
    UE3 may have been ready for GoW, but IMHO it needed a few more things to be ready for UT3.

    But if we did a feature-for-feature comparison, IMHO I would still take UT3's: 64-bit HDR, Multi-threading, NormalMaps, SMesh Lightmapping, Shader Materials, Physics, cross-platform, better Editor with more graphical asset editing, etc... over the currently "missing" UT2k4/standards such as custom crosshairs and demorec and bright skins etc.
    But I am also probably looking at this more from the perspective of a level designer than a level player, even though UT3 is in the top three games that I am currently playing.
    The thing is that many gamers these days are so used to the glitz and glamour of current-gen games that this all goes by the wayside, and most don't stop to think about how lower the tech was in UE2.
    By this I'm not saying that I prefer flashy graphics over gameplay, I'm saying that I like how the better environment compliments the gameplay.

    All of this said, I still don't think that it would have been popular with a portion of the community even if it had all of these "missing" features.
    Some people like the changes, some people don't.
    For me, if Epic doesn't go totally console-first or drop the franchise, I worry about what the future may be and what the next version will have. I would rather see it move towards the larger conquest/warfare direction as I had mentioned a few posts back, but I know that goes against what a lot of the proclaimed "hard-core" UT fans think of UT as, so if it goes back to UT2004 with flashy graphics IMHO that just flips the community over, bringing one side back in but pushing the other away.

    I must say that I enjoy IA as well as the LAN games we have at my studio.
    I do agree that the maps especially for VCTF and WAR are often small, and the set as a whole are perhaps too similarly themed. UT2004 did have a wider variety of biomes and themes. But I didn't play a lot of the 2k4 stock maps anyway, nor do I play many of the UT3 stock maps (there are some I've still not played). Mainly because I don't prefer the flow and layout of many of the maps.
    In LAN games we tend to play a few stock favorites along with my maps (not meant to be spamming for my maps).

    Agreed.

    Once I'm past the menus and into the game though, I enjoy it and have fun.

    There is also the work on GoW2.
    GoW plus UT3 plus GoW2 plus satisfying Licensee needs is a lot of work for a company the size of Epic.

    I would be surprised if it did.
    Probably 75% of those who played and didn't like it have already moved on to other games.
    They may have checked back four to six months after release to see what patches and packs were released, but we've now gone past that point (NA PC Nov 19 2007).

    The slow patches and fixes for BF2142 are the reason why I haven't bothered playing it for many months now. I honestly don't even know what is current for patch version on it.

    The portion of the community that has remained with UT3 will stay with it, but for those who didn't like the changes in direction or gameplay probably won't come back to UT3 regardless of the UI etc. patches. And they will no doubt be more skeptical of any future UT.

    I don't mean that to sound negative, just that how UT2004 lost a section of the UT99'ers, the same is going to go around this time.


    And regarding the mod'ing, mods are still based on the UT3 engine and core scripts, so if people didn't like certain aspects of UT3, chances are they won't like the mods because they will suffer many of the same complaints over various things.
    Which leads us back to my previous post comments on what's the engine versus what's the game.


    That was never my point or consideration.
    It comes down to if we have a set deadline, what features are more important and what can be patched later.
    I'd rather have weapons that shoot and vehicles that drive than the other forementioned missing items.
    But this leads us back into the release date issue...
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008
  7. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    Some of us are long-winded... ;)

    My complaint about the UI is simply how long it takes to load screens. I have two high-end systems here and it still is a long wait. I care less about the few missing options than the time it takes to navigate.
     
  8. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    bBrokenRecord=True

    ...and most of these long winded posts are outlining 5% problems.

    When 95% of players can't turn competitive frames, all the missing AI, UI features, and custom content will mean flip all.

    Had Overtoad on my buddy list, and he was loving 3, despite not player 2kx at all. As well as my in town buddies who we basically quit our LANs due to 2kx being sub par. We were talking of getting them going again, but even half the die hard UT fans that came before don't have the machines to run 3.

    I know that's not huge account of people, but from where I'm sitting, that isn't the case.
     
  9. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, I'm certain that SOMEONE knows who is at fault. Creative just released some new drivers that supposedly "improve UT3 performance" earlier in May. I have a Realtek card and don't care try to turn on OpenAL support, and thus have had no problems :)
    Absolutely, there are many things in the retail release that I wish had been implemented/improved/tested/etc. Even after what patch 3 appears to be turning out to be, I will STILL have complaints. Whoever thought that not having gametype voting in the map vote system was okay needs to have their head examined.

    Suffice it to say, though, that I believe that the gameplay is as fine tuned as it ever could have gotten. YMMV, of course, but I don't think we would see a better successor to UT (after the 2kX series) than UT3 is. All the problems I have with the game are supplementary to that, and so I can enjoy the game without them or with them "broken" (as it were).
     
  10. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    Any serious gamer is going to have the hardware to get decent framerate on UT3. All current games have high system requirements to play things max'ed.
    Even my Quad-3GHz 8800GTS-512 gets much better fps on UT3 totally max'ed than it does on Crysis at normal settings (easily 2 to 4 times).
     
  11. Hyrage

    Hyrage New Member

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    Well, I read everything.

    About UT3 on 360
    A lot of gamers are waiting for this IP and it should be a good hit. FPS on the 360 are usually major hits, but UT3 doesn't actually have the appeal of Call of Duty 4 in term of customization, gaining exp or stuff and replayability. Usually, the Console Gaming Community shifts on the new games. This was a problem on the first X-Box because a lot of great games were left behind. Now, we are a lot more (around 8, 000, 000 because you should not count multiple accounts) and it's less effective so you will find gamers on old games like Halo 2 or R6 Vegas 1.

    The other thing is actually, Console Gaming is getting more intense than ever and Game Developer are also giving more interests in Console Gaming. I have a lot of hope in UE4.

    About UT3 in general

    I do think UT3 is a great PC game for his overall features, because I'm not only a gamer, but also a Level Designer.

    Exclusively from a gamer point of view, I do think that UT3 lacks a lot of Content for a "Unreal Tournament 3". Epic Games shouldn't deliver a UE3 for the community, they should deliver a UT3 with UE3 in bonus. The games offers character customization, DM [I include Duel here], TDM, CTF [only both sides], Warfare, Vehicle CTF, etc. Well many variants, but not whole new gametypes. Where is our cool Bombing Run? Where is Assault?

    Is Epic Games thinking about competing against CoD4?

    The UT3 Gunplay is superb, but is this going to be enough? Plus, I (in my opinion) do not think that the Level Design was interesting enough [not visually, I'm talking about the layouts]. I do think that Quake 3 Arena was a way better on many points except on the graphics just with his basic gameplays. It's just my opinion, but I see more interesting interactions in Quake 3 Arena than in UT3.

    I also think that UT3 delivers a great tool for modding, mapping, making mods & mutators, but I do not think that it should be an excuse on the fact that Epic Games didn't made Bombing Run, demo rec, custom aim, etc. Let the community creating it...

    For sure, I love UT3. The game plays well, quick to pick up a fight, interesting weapons and gore effects. I did play UT3 without Gore and it definately isn't UT3 :lol: . A lot of beatiful maps out there, but I do see UT3 maps as "corridors and corridors all over again", beautiful corridors thought.

    But I must say that it could have been a choice to deal properly with the AI, so I understand why the maps look that simple in term of Level Design. It's a really big constraint and I see all the work behind the maps too so the fact that the maps could have been more interesting doesn't affect me that much now.

    Lack of players Online?
    A lot of FPS gamers moved on the 360. A lot of UT3 players on PC aren't playing because they are working with UE3 :lol:. In other cases, I don't know why there isn't more players than that, probably due to the PC performance so... Too bad.

    On the Overall, I think UT3 is a great game to buy, but I would strongly prefer to have back a few customization elements like "custom aim", demo rec, etc. That kind of stuff are often becoming "Key Features" for nowadays and always more people are interested in "demo rec" stuff especially for machinima and montage creations. I also know a lot of 360 gamers who just enjoy watching their games instead of playing. Memorable moments are price less. :rolleyes:

    I do not see any valuable reasons to not have these features in UT3, having less features than a previous game is not logical at all and keeping the reason that the graphics are better isn't and will never be a valuable explanation, but I do agree what DGUnreal said about the fact that UT3 is using a young engine compared to UT 2004.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  12. iCQ

    iCQ Softice/MASM reverse engineer

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    Do not forget that the economy is also hitting sales, it aint no joke! 'We' rather fight irl wars and pay its taxes then to buy, sometimes inovative, games.

    I think UT3 would have done slightly better if the teamplay had been more motivated onto its players (either by the system or us, the users).
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  13. Hyrage

    Hyrage New Member

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    This is a really great point, I totally missed it out in my post. + 1
     
  14. R.Flagg

    R.Flagg New Member

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    All sources seem to indicate that your statement is wrong. Video game sales do NOT seem to be hurting at all due to economic slow-down (or perceived slow-downs).

    This isn't the original article I read on the topic, but it's just one random one out of many I pulled off of google for now: http://www.digtriad.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=103694&catid=176

    And this kind of relates to other threads around here too. Gaming sales, and PC gaming, are/is just fine. It simply depends on what you're selling. There are more top-quality PC games out now than I have time or money to play. It's actually a great time for PC gaming.
     
  15. Hyrage

    Hyrage New Member

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    Are you kidding? Where are the games? If you meant PC gaming is actually great on old school games I would agree, but I do not think that the actual Next Gen Games are successful on PC at all, what would also explain the jump for console gaming.

    Any explanations?
     
  16. [did]madis

    [did]madis New Member

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    I really hope that UT3 carries on and gets successful, but after suming up all the players from the public servers, I got around 800 people

    At this time, there are 2209 players online in UT99
     
  17. Hyrage

    Hyrage New Member

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    LOLLLLL
    I don't know what Epic Games is actually planning for PC, let's hope promising stuff in the next updates... or UT4 (2K... something) or even GoW2.
     
  18. Anuban

    Anuban Your reward is that you are still alive

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    Boy are you mistaken. CoD4, R6V 1 & 2, GRAW 2, UT3, Crysis, QW:ET, The Orange Box, Mass Effect, and others. Sorry but you are just incorrect when it comes to saying that the PC is not doing successful with next gen games. Also FarCry 2 will be on the PC as well as DMC4, Bioshock is already on the PC. Other titles are coming. Oh yeah and lets not forget the Age of Conan game.
     
  19. Hyrage

    Hyrage New Member

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    Can you tell me how many gamers are playing these games Online compared to their Console Version?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  20. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    Stats stats stats stats stats.

    All Hail The Hypno Toad
     

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