LPBs vs. HPBs

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Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
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I'm glad to see that the war hasn't spread onto the Infiltration forums. I can't begin to tell you how sick I am of that subject. If you feel brave, you might want to check out the CS forums to see just how bad this debate can get.

-Keiichi

"Therefore those skilled at the unorthodox are infinite as heaven and earth, inexhaustible as the great rivers. When they come to an end, they begin again, like the days and months; they die and are reborn, like the four seasons."
- Sun Tzu , "The Art of War"
 

Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
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I'm always ready to pick a fight...

But not over this. Frankly, the HPBs deserve what the get, and the LPBs deserve what they get. You spend more money on a better connection, you deserve a better ping. Its really not more complex than that. And LPB saying and HPB sucks because he doesn't have the advantage of fast communication is stupid, and an HPB saying an LPB sucks because he shells out more cash for his connection and thus has an "unfair advantage" is equally as stupid.

If I hear any more of this, I will kill you all.

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Dead bodies everywhere
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Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
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H/L = High/Low. P = Ping B = Bitch or Bastard, depending on which you find funnier to say and the sex of the person. Personally I think bastard is betta since bitch is a way over used word. Its refreshing to hear somebody scream "yah freakin' bastahd" in a thick scottish accent from time to time.

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Dead bodies everywhere
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Mr. T

New Member
Feb 20, 2000
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And don't forget HPW = High Ping Whiner.

Actually it does kind of suck when you live in an area that won't have access to a high speed connection for another 2 years, so I can whine if I want to.

-Mr. T
 

Alpha_9

Infiltration lead level designer
Jun 1, 2000
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Washington State
Speaking of ping...

Anybody know why it is in INF/UT servers sub-100 pings are so rare? In other games, like Q3 for instance (don't mean to utter a dirty word here, sorry), I commonly see pings as low as 50 w/ my cable modem, even less. But in UT the best I've ever seen is maybe 80, and then only rarely. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Same goes for other players' pings, on servers the best I usually see anybody have is maybe 90 or so.

Anybody have any light they could shed on this puzzle?
<h1><font face="symbol">
a 1001</font></h1>
"I love war and responsibility and excitement.
Peace is going to be hell on me."

Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.
 

MiscMan

The Grand Elitist
Dec 24, 1999
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From what i have heard, sometimes ping is calculated somewhat differently from game to game. Also, it may be where you live.

Though not so many players, there are quite a few more Q3 servers out there. So you may have found a few that are next door.

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-MiscMan

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If all pulled in one direction, the world would keel over.

-Yiddish Proverb
 

turranx

New Member
Jun 6, 2000
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Taking this discussion to another level.

I once tried to ask my networking professor this question. I don't beleive she knew the answer because she danced around the issue for 5 min talking about anything but what i asked about. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Lets see if anyone else can do any better. The program that puts out an ICMP packet (ping) has a timer in it right? And when it gets a reply packet from the computer it was sent to, the program stops running, then figures out the amount of time it took to receive the response. This leaves one area open for dispute -> Does the timer start when the software initiates ping packet or when the packet actually leaves the computer?

NIC's and Ethernet (802.2) have built into them an algorithm used to avoid packet collision. If a NIC tries to send a packet, but the line is busy (perhaps another computer on the same hub as our above mentioned test machine was transmitting at the time), it waits a random amount of time then tries to transmit again. If the line is still busy, it bumps up the maximum amount of randomly available time to wait, then it waits again. This process goes on and on until a predefined wait time ceiling is reached, or the NIC can transmit it's packet. So, is the ping packet timer ticking while the NIC waits to transmit? Good question.

Furthermore, if you play and watch you 'F6' screen at the same time (Hey Stop looking at me like that! I really do watch it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ) you may notice that your ping jumps up when you die. (at least it does on my machine) So I am also lead to beleive that your ping depends upon how busy your processor is. I have run games of UT across a 100Mbit/sec Ethernet switch (by netgear. real nice model. Metal case, heavy power supply, neat blue color, and it goes ARG! ARG! ARG! when you turn it on.... er... um... back to the topic) using a Pentium 233 with 72 Meg ram in software rendering mode connected to an AMD K6-2 450 runing the UT server (IN LINUX! Yea baby Yea!) And the pings of the 233 were close to 100. Across the lan!? it must have something to do with total processor utilization.

I remember reading some article once, written by some guy, (pretty descriptive huh!?) about optimizing UT. And in this nameless article A correlation between frames per second in the lower resolutions (640x480) and the CAS setting (latency) of your system ram. He hypothesized (makes him seem smarter then saying 'he guessed') that the kernel of UT was just large enough to not fit completely in cache ram (unlike Q3). This required frequent access to System Ram. (and at the lower resolutions, your processor becomes the bottleneck, not your graphics card (i think). If your ram is CAS2, you will get slightly higher fps than if it was at CAS3 for the lower resolutions. So what I'm trying to say is that UT is 1.) processor intensive, and 2.) memory intensive (which adds wait states as the processor accesses ram). So when the ping packet is received these two may just keep the processor busy enough to add a few milliseconds to the timer before the timer can be stoped to calculate the response time of the ping. (And what I'm trying to say here may just apply to the server as well. Who knows how much time the ICMP packet spends inside the deepest darkest regions of the servers CPU before it is returned to the sending computer.)

In conclusion, I would like to wish the best of luck to the 2000 graduating class of SOB Institute of Technology... er, sorry wrong speech. Well, you get what I am trying to say. And to those of you who understand what I just tried to convey to you, I congratulate you. Now could you try to explaiin it to me? J/K

Peace Love & Valvoline

Greg /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[This message was edited by turranx on Jun 14, 2000 at 22:17.]
 

Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
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Ottawa, Ontario
The answer is really simple. Quake engine games use UDP. Unreal and UT still rely on TCP.

Thus the pings are higher because it has to acknowledge the packet's request, but packet loss is rarer. I'd personally prefer UDP myself since one or two lost packets make no difference to me.

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A black eye and a restraining order from your grandmother
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Christopher Webb

Overtly Serious Chappy.
I have cable... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

...but I go through a Windows NT server/proxy machine /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

which doesn't allow the games to 'see' ANY servers /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

and I can't use linux because my ISP (Telstra) uses it's own stupid crap config connector, instead of using some form of standard like any other NORMAL non-control freak company would do /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

<insert cute/ interesting/ bizarre signature here>
 

Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
1,758
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Ottawa, Ontario
Does it use a DHCP server to assign you an IP address? Most cable companies do.

Also, is that IP address that same every time?

It should be. If you dunno how to check your ip address, run winipcfg... write down the IP address. if the IP address is the same after reboot or a release/renew, you can set yourself up static. Which is pretty easy to do.


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A black eye and a restraining order from your grandmother
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MiscMan

The Grand Elitist
Dec 24, 1999
760
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But that can crap up the entire Cable node. My provider even went as far as to point that out. So i wouldn't try it.

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-MiscMan

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If all pulled in one direction, the world would keel over.

-Yiddish Proverb
 

Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
1,758
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Ottawa, Ontario
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's the funniest thing I've ever heard, really. I used to outsource for a cable provider and that is the biggest, most stinking pile of bullshit I have ever heard. They don't LIKE people setting themselves up static because it makes the residential services harder to monitor for "illegal web servers", thats all. It doesn't do anything to the cable node, it just by-passes the proxy and DHCP server, which actually saves them some bandwidth. Tech support lies to customers alot, believe me.

Sometimes its for their own good, sometimes its not.

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A black eye and a restraining order from your grandmother
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