1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

[lolololitics]America not greatest country ever?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by pine, Nov 2, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TWD

    TWD Cute and Cuddly

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2000
    Messages:
    7,440
    Likes Received:
    8
    See this is why some people (particularly liberals) have such a hard time with these things. Who cares about "ideological purity"? What idiot is going to say no to the government giving them back what was rightfully theirs in the first place?

    A hypocrite is one who acts contrary to their stated opinions and beliefs. This is quite the opposite. I'm more than happy to actively game the system to the extent that it is legal to do so, just so that I can prove how screwed up the system is in the first place. I am completely upfront about it, and my behavior is completely consistent with my political beliefs.

    Such so called "ideological purity" is for fools.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  2. phil

    phil OH GOD

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2000
    Messages:
    3,705
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know plenty of vegans who don't eat meat even if their tax dollars go to subsidize the cattle/swine industry. If you have to tell yourself that you're "gaming the system" by using entitlement programs instead of being truthful and admitting that they're useful to the bottom 99% [and in the last 3 years the top 1% have even been dipping into these sorts of things too] of the population (even if they just exist as a social safety net stabilizing society) not only are you a hypocrite you're lying to yourself too.

    And not to get off on another tangent here but "rightfully theres"...lol I tell you what you keep the little bit of money you pay into the tax system and we'll keep our national commons, cheap subsidized energy, and subsidized food. We'll see who gets the better deal on that.


    I also find it more than a little ironic that a outspoken mormon is suggesting ideological purity is foolish....
     
  3. Hideinlight

    Hideinlight Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Many South Africans that lived in America for a short period of time in the past had the same comments.

    Your health care system sucks balls and only benefits to the elite rich. So seeing one of the candidates mentioning going back to the old system (best in the world) is just plain retarded. Rather improve on your new system.
     
  4. Lostsoul

    Lostsoul boobs

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a vegetarian, i do not eat meat. That is a completely separate context that has no bearing on this, at all, trying to draw a connection is terrible. In fact no one has come up with a good analogy yet.

    Unemployment is useful, I have used it. I have no qualm about it because i know I have more than paid in to it since I was 13. I can think of several better ways to run the unemployment program without it being a forced tax.

    I think part of the problem for a lot of you, is that unless you sign paychecks, you never even see the money.

    There is a big difference in unemployment taxes, and the rest. I have no issues with paying to keep this country running. I do have problems with a tax designed to protect us from ourselves, even more so when i see people that could really use that money but can't get it. The same way I don't like laws that are to protect us from ourselves. Legalize drugs and prostitution!
     
  5. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    Keep continuing to make yourself look like you don't know what a hypocrite is all day long, if you'd like. The fact of the matter is, this isn't hypocrisy.

    Nobody is saying that since you pay into unemployment, you HAVE TO utilize it. Example, face, floor.
    Because all of those things are connected? Nobody is talking about eliminating taxes. We all know the country needs money to operate.

    This reminds me almost exactly of the pre-election "scandal" about Republican senators who opposed the stimulus bill taking stimulus money. ZOMG NO! ONCE THE MONIES WERE ALREADY ALLOTTED THEY WANTED THEIR TAXPAYERS WHO WERE ON THE HOOK TO GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT! WHAT! HYPOCRITES!

    No. Not hypocrisy. A person doing their job. My Congresspeople have a job so that I get a cut of every raw deal Washington produces, as well as a cut of every good deal Washington produces. Opposition to something does not preclude its use and does not make you a hypocrite for using it.
     
  6. Lizard Of Oz

    Lizard Of Oz Demented Avenger

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 1998
    Messages:
    10,593
    Likes Received:
    15
    It is hypocrisy when said congress person goes on Fox and screams "The Stimulus is failure, it hasn't created a single job," and then they run back to their home state and present a giant check to the Governor and scream "Look what I did for you, I got you the monies to help you create JOBS!"
     
  7. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    I think I would call that lying, not hypocrisy. Anyone who says the stimulus did not create a single job is either a moron or is trying to say that "people who received stimulus money created the jobs not the stimulus" which is a dumb thing to say.
     
  8. Peavey

    Peavey Rattus Norvegicus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Messages:
    2,935
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hypocrisy = lying to yourself.
     
  9. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    hypocrisy = doing something you claim to not do.
     
  10. Peavey

    Peavey Rattus Norvegicus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Messages:
    2,935
    Likes Received:
    1
    So we can agree to agree, then :)
     
  11. kiff

    kiff That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    agreeing will ruin this thread
     
  12. 213

    213 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just glance past the real points and start throwing out hypothetical and imaginary straw-man arguments about a side note.

    Are we sure some of you don't work for Fox News?

    and ffs how can you think that arguing against unemployment, or social security in one breath and then collecting it at the drop of so much as a hammer on your toe is not hypocritical? WTF happened to people's principles and self respect? (that's a trick question: They got replaced with self entitlement and capitalism inspired selfishness. It doesn't make you a bad person, it just means you've assimilated completely into the system.)

    No, I would not eat that bread forcibly delivered to my door. WTF is wrong with you that you would? (Hell if the Reps were in charge of that bread, with them shutting down the FDA that bread is probably poisonous anyway,..)

    Unemployment/Social Security/Disability (roads, public schools, police protection, fire departments etc..): If it was voluntary, and people chose not to pay into it, they should not get a penny of it when they need it. However, if it was voluntary, most idiots would not pay in, and those would be precisely the idiots who need it most often. ...and the part you all skimmed over: the people who legitimately need it would also be out of luck, due to other people's total selfishness and stupidity.

    You don't want gov't big enough to monitor the money we should all be putting in to systems like these, that are meant to help us all, but then you bitch and moan when the money goes to the wrong people.

    Hell some of you even bitch that you have to pay in at all, but then turn right around and cash those unemployment checks and scam those food stamps every month. This is called hypocrisy. There's no glossing it over or polishing up that turd. It's selfishness and ignorance at their most base and immoral levels.

    There's nothing moral or right about the Right being in charge. The gap between the poor and wealthy has been getting exponentially larger and slipperier the last decade or so, and it's not because the Left was running anything. Corporations have had more rights than their employees and gov't has done nothing to stem the growth of capital gains and profiteering off the misery of others. The Reps used a fake war to subsidize profits for the extremely wealthy and gone out of their way to **** all over our own children's futures by gutting our schools.

    Anyone who thinks that what's been going on from 2000 to 2008 is fine is a hypocritical, lying, bag of human waste who needs to disposed of with extreme prejudice. People who can't see how screwed up things have been must be sociopaths of Charles Manson proportions and deserve nothing more than rotting away in a cell somewhere,
    no food (hey they're not paying for it)
    no water (hey they didn't build the pipes)
    and no sun (they didn't build their own personal sun. why should they feel warmth?)

    There's Republican logic for you.

    Meanwhile, let's have a dick waving contest with our smart phones.
     
  13. kiff

    kiff That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    the maniac from sweden covers the german hendrix

    [M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffn6bMhaJe4&feature=related[/M]
     
  14. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    12
    I have been holding off my comments in this thread simply so that I could see where it would go.

    The Politico story misses the point of American exceptionalism. It isn't about saying that other countries suck or the USA is the best country ever on all fronts. But let me not America's pluses over other countries.

    When combined, these items show that America IS one of the greatest, if not THE greatest country on Earth.

    1. Justice system. America's justice system is hands down the best overall system in the world. Name another country that has all of these: Habeas corpus, Miranda, accused are innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers, and a prison system that not only guarantees its prisoners with standard human rights, but also allows these persons to better themselves through personal education.

    2. Freedoms and rights. Freedom of speech and religion, freedom and right to vote, and that these freedoms and rights cannot be denied regardless of your social status or proclaimed birthright.

    3. Serve in public office. A person need not be born an aristocrat to qualify for any public office. The only qualifications are age and residency.

    4. Freedom to relocate without government interference or denial. We Americans are free to chose the state and towns we live in, what schools/colleges our children attend, and the jobs we take.

    5. No child is denied an education simply because they are too poor or are of a certain sex, race or religion.

    6. A government of the people and for the people. Not only do we have a bicameral Congress that represent the people in their districts and states, we have a three sided government that provides real checks and balances to prevent any one person or group taking control over the entire country.

    7. Cultural, religious and social diversity. Show me another country with such a diverse population as the US.

    While our country is currently facing challenges in the health care arena (some perceived and others real), lack of job growth due to a weak economy partially due to government interference and corporate mismanagement, and, immigration issues due to lack of real reform and a country on our southern border that totally disrespects our sovereignty, America stands at the forefront on all the seven items I mentioned above. What other countries have populations the size of the US and offers all the America offers the individual?

    A country where its citizens have no pride of ownership stands to become a victim of violent revolution or invasion. Without that pride, there is no cohesiveness, no security, no guarantee of individual rights, because the people become sheep who let the government make all the decisions that affect their lives. No pride means never speaking out against oppression or tyranny, as the people are either uncaring or fearful of what others think of them.

    When we claim American exceptionalism, we are acknowledging and celebrating our own individual accomplishments and the accomplishments of other Americans. When my son scored very well on his SATs, my family went out to celebrate. Was that celebration in any way demeaning the accomplishments of others who have taken the SATs? How is our chest-thumping demeaning or otherwise diminishing the accomplishments of other countries? How does this display of pride really make us look like fools? The same persons who claim America to be the greatest country in the world are some of the same people who have lived through the most adverse conditions and have lived the most interesting lives. So what if some dude who never steps outside his own little world claims the US sucks. Gee, Wally, if I only observed and noted the bad things that go on here at BuF, I would probably steer folks away from here too.

    /TR;DR
     
  15. phil

    phil OH GOD

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2000
    Messages:
    3,705
    Likes Received:
    0
    So we're all clear on the definition and we're talking about a guy on facebook who was bitching about government spending while sucking on the government tit. If you can't understand it, you're either trolling or need to get back to elementary school for some English education.

    Yes most money you pay in taxes (even that social security money) goes into the "general fund" and is then is doled out to programs from there so they're all connected. Yes in fact bitching about money that is "rightfully yours" and then using the services it provides that are heads and tales above the little bit you put into it does matter. It's a giant part of the problem with politics in this country everyone from the top down is trying to "game the system" from the people using tax shelters to not pay their rightful share , to the citizenry bitching about "high taxes", to the government spending money on things like the so called bridge to no where that have no public benefit in reality (and if you bring up health care reform in your reply to this I will drive to your house and stab you in the face). I didn't want to get off on this tangent so I most likely won't respond to replies on this subject here anyway :I

    No that's not the job of a senator or congressman or president at all that's silly and you sir are now also silly. I suggest you reference your beloved, immortal, never to change, and never to be read anything but literally (with no punctuation....especially those god damn comas) constitution for further information.
     
  16. phil

    phil OH GOD

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2000
    Messages:
    3,705
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suggest you read: http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/0684818868

    Not a week goes by that we don't hear about a celebrity who buys his way out of jail time with legal gymnastics. If you think solitary confinement (see maximum security prisons) is humane I suggest you hit up google for the definition of humane.

    These exist in other countries, in fact they existed well before America was known to Europe.

    ...and millions of dollars to run for office.

    Exists in other countries, but again economic class warfare tends to limit the choices of the majority of Americans.

    No but they are subjected to a substandard one

    I guess some "people" (corporations) are more important than others with the amount of money they pump into the system

    Actually.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megadiverse_countries

    Size doesn't matter in regards to this argument it's a false qualifier. There are plenty of countries around the world that provide their citizenry equal if not better rights and protections. Also nice shot at brown people(TM) I really suggest you read that book I linked you if you want a real lesson about American sovereignty and respect.


    The problem is that as a country we didn't "score high on the SAT" we just believe our own bull****. The truth is we're all just people like everyone else there is nothing special about a guy in the middle of Kentucky when compared to a guy from the Gansu province of China or a guy from Batswana they're all just people trying to get by. Being a person is amazing enough without being petty about the place you happened to be born and really if you want to think of yourself as exceptional the place you happened to be born would certainly not be a place to start as a qualifier of your exceptional nature.
     
  17. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    I suggest you look up the definitions of the words in the definitions you posted.

    Nobody has said (and that guy didn't say) that the programs were horrible and that nobody should be taking advantage of them and then taking advantage of them. That would be hypocrisy.

    You have yet to show how complaining about the existence of something that you use is hypocrisy in any form.
    HEALTH CARE REFORM :p

    In all seriousness, I don't see how your point here has anything to do with people using services they contribute to. For me, this is like car insurance. I HAVE TO have car insurance. It's a requirement. I think it's horrible, that it shouldn't exist or should be heavily reformed, but you can be sure if I get in an accident I will be reporting it to my insurance company.

    I don't understand how you can miss this concept. I am paying for a service. I am using that service. I don't want to pay for that service. Where is the duality? Where is the hypocrisy? None of the definitions you've posted even approaches the context of this situation.
    So you're saying that the job of Congress and the President is NOT to improve the lives of tax paying citizens. Ok.

    My Congresspeople represent me, as a taxpayer, in Washington. If they are not going to do things that will benefit me (in addition to thing that benefit the entire country) I will vote against them. They are there to represent me.

    Also, I won't say America is the greatest country in the world, but to ignore that America is a great country still is simple ignorance. I'm sure there are lots of great places to live. I live in one of them.
     
  18. -Jes-

    -Jes- Tastefully Barking

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    19
    Denmark: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

    Also, Copenhagen (our capitol) sports the same amount of Mosque's for less than Half the metropolitan population. So effectively, we're ahead of you on 2.

    Oh yeah, and technically, thanks to the Patriot Act, America does not in the strictest of sense have 1 and 2. Oh yeah, and 3, because all your elects seem to need a wealthy background to get anywhere.

    So you were saying?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2010
  19. dragonfliet

    dragonfliet I write stuffs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    31
    Here is the thing about American Exceptionalism--it is, by nature, delusional. It says that, sure, we do the same things that other countries do, but it's okay, we're different. I call it the precious little snowflake argument. Sure, we engage in global wars and impose governments upon others, but it isn't imperialism, we have protectorates, but it isn't what the British did, we depose governments we disagree with but it is alright, etc. We are a precious little snowflake and it isn't what it looks like. Please.

    That being said, I would not choose to live in any other country and I feel that mine is the best. I feel that despite its flaws, taken as a whole it is the most wonderful to live in. However, like any reasonable person I realize that subjective opinions are subjective and to say, like Crotale has, that the US is somehow the only country with the things he has listed (instead of one of MANY and one that is woefully behind on many of them), is ridiculous. This is the best country for me and I recognize that for some, France is the best country for them and god bless them, they can move there, but to make the silly argument that we are objectively the best is to need your head removed from your own ass.

    ~Jason
     
  20. theabyss

    theabyss No One Here Gets Out Alive

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,669
    Likes Received:
    9
    @ JES :D
    I was going to say for 1-6 I could show numerous examples.
    #7 however I must agree - the States have probably the most diverse society.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2010
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page