Loadout & Weight/Credit Restrictions

[Billdog]

In version 3 Infiltration will get a menu where you can equip yourself before spawn. Only the players will have weapons and ammo, nothing but special pickups and the dead guys stuff will lay around in the map.
Your choice of equipment will be restricted by a weight and credit rate on each item. Read it all here.

What do YOU think about it?


Billdog:

"I like the idee, with a quarrel: The credit rating is to unclear.

My solution would be to make 4 statistics instead of 2: Weight, Bulk, Availability and Price.
- Weight will restrict your movement on land, and increase falling damage.
- Bulk impacts on your swimming speed and backpack size /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
- Availability will restrict choice of equipment, and be based on player class.
- Price are also going to limit the amount of equipment you can have. The price tag would only differ for the default class: soldier of fortune. The class don't have to worry about Availability only Price.

The players should have a set amount of money and the possibility to chose 1 piece of uncommon equipment (available/uncommon/unavailable).

Claymores and Mines ain't a trouble if you have to set it up yourself (use time). You don't hide a mine very well by activating it and putting it on top of the ground, like we do now. Why not also a demo kit?"

Am I mad, is the Infiltration team all madmen, are you mad? Opinions please.

 

[RaekwoN]

Perhaps price could reflect availability. Although it is unrealistic to say that it would cost more for a soldier to buy a sniper rifle, it might work.

I like the ideas though Billdog, you've obviously done a bit of RPG work in the past, it makes for good game players, especially in this genre.

 

[Billdog]

Price is very very realistic, and also the way to make "Soldier of Fortune" work. I'm sure that a lot of gun fans can't live without (just think of the debate each price will make).

RP: You dirty cat, you actually read my profile /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Computer games offer a "behind the scene" complexity you could never have on paper. So it is hard not to take advantage of the possibility.

 

[RaekwoN]

What I meant was this...

Is it realistic to say that the price of a weapon would be different for different character classes. No it is not.

By the way, what roleplay are you into? Ex-ShadowRun fan here.

 

[Catalyst]

My fear is that if we institute a price system we will be accused of ripping off mods like Counter Strike. If we were to have cash, it would have to be a set amount, not accrued since that leads to unbalance.

 

[RaekwoN]

Yeah, the cash system in CS sucks, a set amount, possibly called credit or allowance, would be fine, as long as it is set.

Certain character classes may have higher credit due to high equipment prices, example the sniper class may have higher credit, becuase sniper weapons are a higher price hence lessening the use of the weapons by other classes. Get it?

 

[Catalyst]

There is no 'sniper' class, it would just have to be that the sniper-minded player forfeits most of his cash for his sniper rifle rather than spreading out the money.

 

[RaekwoN]

The word hypothetical comes to mind Catalyst...

 

[Warren]

Cat's right- to keep things balanced and 'fair', everyone would have to start out with the same amount of cash and decide which role they'd like to play from there. The amount would need to be fairly substantial, but not too much. Prices wouldn't relfect actual realistic costs, just a balance for weapons that pack more punch but might be a lighter, smaller gun (M16A2 vs M4 for example). Or large weapons like the sniper rifles. Great idea, Billdog- we'll take a serious look at doing that in addition to weight/credit (bulk is a better word) variables.

We'll be looking into allowing the level designer to go as far as specifying which weapons/items/characters to restrict for his map to allow the freedom of creating a sort of game mode. This can tie in with the availability. We'll also allow the server to override these restrictions if desired.

Mutators for Infiltration -- any ideas? they need to be realistic, for instance, have nothing but melee weapons allowed... This can be a route to make Infiltration much more enjoyable to more people.

We're also looking into a 'sudden death' time clock after a certain period has passed when there is only a 1 on 1 scenerio. This would be an on/off switch for the server too.

Keep them good ideas rolling- our roadmap is still subject to change!!

 

[Guest]

Why do wen need cash!
See, you are a SWAT/Ranger/Seal/SFOD member. You don't need to buy them, you just HAVE them.And imagine: A team has won a round -> they get money -> they're in advantage -> those who lose have a hard job winning the next round -> disappointment
I'd suggest a restriction to the amount of weapons instead. Take a primary, a secondary, and 2 different types of items (i.e. 2 claymores + 3 flashbangs / extra ammo + 2 proximities)

And even if you think I'm stupid: what are mutators?

 

[RaekwoN]

The hypothetical part of my reply was in reference to the character classes.

Why don't you guys want to seperate the characters into classes such as Sniper and the like, is it because you fear it will be seen as plagarism?

Personally I would really like to have different player classes which vary in size, ability and have adverse effects in the way the player well...plays.

 

[Warren]

Here's the thing.. the money situation would be strictly a one time deal. Everyone gets a certain amount of cash and that doesn't change for anything. ie you don't EARN cash, you just start out with a set amount. The purpose of this is to allow a balance to weapons that are very powerful.. for instance, the FiveseveN handgun has 20 armour-piercing rounds and the gun is fairly light. Once people realize the power of this weapon, why would they have any reason not to get it every time? Unless it were restricted by the mapper or server.. Instead, if you make that handgun much more expensive than the M9, people might rather spend their cash on a bigger weapon or maybe dual M9's. The cash thing will just be a kind of gauge to keep real powerful weapons from becoming overused. We certainly can't make them weigh more! We were going to use the credit system instead, but cash is more probable.

Now, to justify the realism of money Neo, where do you think these organizations GET their money? In my job, we certainly don't get an unlimited supply of bombs, or fuel for our aircraft.. The government allocates a certain amount of money for each squadron to spend.. the same occurs with any other government organization. They are given money for their weapon supply, ammo, equipment, etc. To make things fair however, all money will be equal- and it will probably be in US currency since our team is pretty biased /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif j/k

Dealing with player classes, the whole idea is to allow the player (you) to configure your character enough to fit whatever genre you want! You'll basically get a stripped character that you can add whichever weapons, ammo, equipment etc. Everyone will start with the same speed/stamina, but depending on your equipment you carry, that'll change. If you only carry a PSG, three or four clips, and a handgun with a couple clips, than obviously you'll be pretty fast and if you know how to strategically move, stealthy too. If you don't want a backpack, don't add anything to it and you'll be a little bit faster still. If you are better at being a stealthy SEAL who gets in there and gets the job done, maybe all you want is a silenced handgun and silenced MP5 or something similiar. But if you enjoy carrying all the guns you can and loading yourself up, then hey, more power to you! We would like to refrain from adding too many variables to the soup, otherwise we may spend too much time just trying to make everything balanced.

The current player classes will differ a little in speed and stamina, but not by much. The idea is to allow a mapper to get more choices to fit their map. If for instance you are to be a bodyguard character (suit/tie deal) then obviously you can't have a backpack, but maybe you start out faster with higher stamina. We'll try and balance everything best we can, but obviously it's subject to change as better ideas come about. Personally the money issue, if done right, is a great idea. We don't want the money to be the goal of the game- it's just another variable to help balance the gameplay.

Neo- mutators would be a set of 'rules' your current game would have.. just additions to, in some respects, adjust a game mode like StandOff to be something a little different. UT has a nice interface that lets you add mutators to a game to change it's style. There may not be a huge amount of options for Infiltration since we deal with realism, so we wouldn't promote magic spells or whatnot-- at the same time I'm looking forward to playing Infil weapons on DMMorbias (spell?)

 

[Warren]

One thing I didn't mention- we're still looking at a smooth way to transition between rounds. The problem stems from when you expend your ammo- if you're out then how do you restock? One option is to do it automatically- you keep what weapons you have and basically get restocked on everything you came into the game with (firstaid kits, mines, ammo, etc) unless you tossed a weapon in favour of another one from a dead guy or other player- then you can either get restocked with a couple clips for that weapon or something. Another option is to allow players to spend 30 seconds or so in the Loadout window to restock themselves. The problem with this is the money thing-- if we do that-- you've spent all your money than you'll have nothing left. A solution for that is everytime a player uses a clip, they get money back for that clip (or item) so they can get another. This will be another tuffy to balance. Anyone with ideas?

For players who don't like their setup and want to redo it, or players coming in midround, what we'll do is you end up quitting that game, jumping into the loadout window, setting your stuff up, then joining on the next round. We'll have an option like 'quit to loadout window'.

 

[Darkliege]

ok, maybe stupid, but how about being able to call for an equipment drop for the whole team and the items ordered by one person would only be able to be picked up by that person.
The catch:
1.takes time- comes in the next round or in the middle of the round.
2.can be shot down by your enemies
3.communication equip must be intact. if the enemy destroys it someone will have to repair it. The repair parts could be "bought" with your credits at the beginning.

A little more complicated, but i think it would be more interesting.

 

[RaekwoN]

The best way to deal with the transition of rounds would be to simply start each round as though it is the first round, that means everyone gets re-stocked on everything they have chosen, they lose weapons they have picked up during the round, and everything is nice and even.

 

[Hodag]

I'm still no fan of weapon pickups--What you get when you start, is ALL you'll get-- but RaekwoN's suggestion is pretty good. Starting from the base line each round would prevent one side from gaining an overwhelming advantage...

 

[Billdog]

The variation on prices to the mercenary, should counter the ability to chose all kinds of weapons. The avability type "uncommon" would limit the player to 1? piece of special equipment like the Five-seveN, scuba, HK69 or grappling hook. Also the avability of equipment would be the main difference between the classes.


Darkliege:

It could make a fine mutator/gametype: "Resupply". How about "Low on Ammo", where survivors don't get resupplied.


Warren:

I'd like a clean start, to keep it simple and fair. Will it be possible as a player to chain a certain loadout to a certain map, so I don't start POWcamp* with my Ghetto equipment? Also if you joined the game and is busy with the loadout at the intermission, are your respawn delayed til you are finished?

* I don't dig POWcamp, but it has an educational value.


RaekwoN (where did you get that name - Korea? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RP: I focus on persona so the system is just a hindrance. Recent systems to hinder me: Dark Conspiracy (Twilight2k family member) and Deadlands (the Weird West). A small system designer lives inside of me, so I both design and research RP systems without actually using them (I have a system with a intro scenario if you can read danish /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

 

[RaekwoN]

Well no Billdog, actually ripped it from a member of a large American hip hop group, the Wu-Tang clan, one member is called RaekwoN, it's pronounced...

Rake-wan

Yeah, anyway. I've actually got a friend in the process of having one of his RP systems looked over by FASA of all companies. He went to them in England when he visited a year back, and said 'look I've got a system' they said cool, send us a 10-20,000 word draft and we'll look over it. Pretty cool I helped design alot of the combat and damage system in it so yeah.

[This message has been edited by RaekwoN (edited 10-08-1999).]

 

[Warren]

A resupply drop would be a cool mutator.. that's a great example!

I also agree so far, that restarting a round like it were the first is the best option. Any pickups you get will be from the recently deceased (unless your buddy tosses you one) and those will just disappear once a new round begins.

Limiting weapons/equipment to certain class/skin combinations would be best suited by the level designer. The fact is, as much as we REALLY would love to, there's no way we can add the amount of stuff to this mod that is needed. As a result we have to comprimise in a lot of places we wish we didn't. Right now, weapons will only be limited by a mapper or server. Besides, a good merc is bound to get their hands on any weapon they choose! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Never fear however. Once 3.0 is released, there's no reason we can't update once in a while with more weapons and equipment!

Our plans right now is to give the player the ability to save their loadout whenever they wish. If they like certain maps, then they can just load a default and be ready to go! If that server decides to throw in a limitation or two, the player may have to choose a replacement for that game. We'll work on an optimum time to keep an intermission going so players can start as soon as possible. For instance, if one player joins, the intermission clock doesn't start until another joins the opposing team. Then a countdown begins to respawn. Anyone missing this timeframe will have to wait until the next round.