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Joy! UnrealEngine Runtime builds!

Discussion in 'Programming' started by [SAS]Solid Snake, Oct 14, 2003.

  1. [SAS]Solid Snake

    [SAS]Solid Snake New Member

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    http://udn.epicgames.com/pub/Powered/UnrealEngine2Runtime/

    Much joy. Can we introduce a new tag to any posts about Unrealscripting here as [RunTime] or something like that. I haven't played with this tool as such but I do believe that something as important as Unrealscript would have been kept intact right? Although we have to do a lot more work than before this would mean much more power to us ... who wanted to change things lower down the level.
     
  2. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    that's the only thing you actually get: unreal script

    do note that you may not use this runtime for creating games or commecrial software.
     
  3. [SAS]Solid Snake

    [SAS]Solid Snake New Member

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    Yes I did actually see that, and thought that it was quite odd. What could you actually create with it?

    I knew about the commercial issues, but games? Seems a little strange or maybe it was just to show potential liscences what could be achieved?
     
  4. inio

    inio many fauceted scarlet emerald

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    I read through the license and noticed the part about no commercial exploitation. Also it doesn't allow sub-licensing which seems like it might prevent redistribution completely. However, I didn't see anything specifically disallowing the creation of interactive entertainment software (or allowing creation of non-entertainment software) using the engine. Might have missed it though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2003
  5. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    For not being allowed for creating games it has a pretty cool example map. :)
    Also the GUI looks very familiar.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. inio

    inio many fauceted scarlet emerald

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    Alright, decided to dig a little deeper into this. So without further ado, my interpretation of the license:

    First of all I couldn't find a copy of the license installed with the runtime (edit: later found it on UDN), so I had to run the installer again. Now on to the possibly interesting part:

    paragraphs 1 and 2 basically says "Hey, this is the license. It applies to everything in here, and anything you make with it." Then things start getting interesting.

    The term "commercial use" seems a bit vague. For example, would the following hypothetical situation qualify as commercial use:

    A city is preparing to build a new building of some sort. They want to allow the community to provide input on the building's layout and location before it's built, so they decide to provide a walkthrough to anyone with a computer and internet connection. The city decides to use the Unreal Engine to provide this walkthrough. The city then contracts with someone to create the Unreal map to use. Although money changes hands in the creation of the content, the actual deployment of the end result is done free of charge to the community.

    Alternately, if a school teaches a class using the Unreal Engine, the students are paying to take the class. The teacher would probably provide textures, models, template scripts, template maps, etc. The teacher in effect was payed (by the school) to create that content and the students are paying to acquire it (assuming it is available exclusively to the students enrolled in the class).

    Fair enough.

    Of course.

    now for the ...:

    What constitutes a derivative work? From the first above hypothetical: the map file is dependent on the Epic base classes. The data structures contained inside the package are derived from the definition of the Epic classes. Does that make it a derivative work?

    Yep, those would all be equivalent to commercial exploitation, except for the last one. Does the last one prevent me from redistributing the engine unmodified but bundled with additional content?

    What exactly is a "proprietary legend"? A brief googling indicates that this license might be what this is referring to.

    Wasn't that covered in the section 3? I understand you want to be very clear on that point though.

    I assume, however, that the explicit restrictions above have precedence over this provision. Also here the and seems a bit ambiguous. Must the proposes be both non-commercial AND educational, or is one of the two enough?

    The rest of section 4 essentially reduces to "It might be possible to break the law with this. Don't do it. It's your own damn fault if you do."

    And thus the end of section 4 is reached, with nary a mention of interactive entertainment (game) vs. non-interactive (machinima) or non-entertainment use.

    Sections 5-11 look pretty standard. Some notes though:
    • The requirement that the licensee both "be naughty" and "fail to comply with the license" in order for the license to be terminated is interesting as the prior requirement is seemingly up to interpretation.
    • Is crossing it out necessary? White-out works better btw.
    • what is this "www.epicgames.com"? That's just a host name. Without an access protocol (http://) that's kinda meaningless.
    • I didn't know you could enforce copyright with an army of clones.
    • Section 11 is a nice touch :).

    Then again, INAL, so the above is likely complete hogwash.

    *edit* Updated the EULA link to point to the official version on UDN. *edit*
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2003
  7. JamesKilton

    JamesKilton UA Coder

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    Well heck, I was expecting something more useful, as Solid Snake said, something further down. Guess we shouldn't have hoped so much. And come on, Epic doesn't even give you the unextracted UScript! Oh well, maybe next time (or maybe HL2).
     
  8. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    Not only that. Also the only way to get the missing subobjects (UCC BatchExport <package> Object T3D <path>) only creates files with the actual object names without the objects' Outers which makes it impossible to restore which subobject belongs to which class. (This is much easier with UT2003.)
     
  9. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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  10. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

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    You mean you can use it to make 'Page Cannot Be Displayed' error messages online? Don't see much point really, I see enough of the damn things already.
     
  11. inio

    inio many fauceted scarlet emerald

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    I understand that's the intent, but nowhere in the license does it allow things like that, or disallow making a game and releasing it for free. So as far as I can tell either you can't do something like unreality.net (without an additional license), or you can make a game with it (as long as it's completely non-commercial).
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2003
  12. Rens2Sea

    Rens2Sea Total Exp: 1338 > leet

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    I just want to make small freeware games :D
    If they just released the uscript source :|
     
  13. [SAS]Solid Snake

    [SAS]Solid Snake New Member

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    Ditto. Shame that.
     
  14. inio

    inio many fauceted scarlet emerald

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    There's one big catch to making a freeware game with this (pending any forthcoming license restrictions on interactive entertainment): You can't go back and look at the UT2003 source for inspiration. Even if you toss out the UT2003 source before starting, they still might be able to claim copyright infringement if you design your class hierarchy in a similar way.
     
  15. Die_Angel

    Die_Angel New Member

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    hmm sooo in more clear term what CAN we do and what CAN'T we do ?
     
  16. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

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    It's official that games are no go by the looks of it.
     
  17. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    it's official that games are allowed, it's just there almost no base for it. You have to do all from scratch, however, you do have a kick ass engine.
     
  18. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

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    Yeah, just read the BU front page and noticed Rappy's post about Games being ok :) Me is one happy camper now (I'm now trying to pursuade the team I'm with to switch to the Runtime build, since we haven't started anything yet as such and we're making an RPG from scratch, so this could very well do us nicely indeed........:D ).
     
  19. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    but that doesn't discount that both mark rein in the ut2003mods distro list and vito on the official forums have said that it is for non-game, application creation.
     
  20. chunky

    chunky Uni bum

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    What about a 3d web page browser? Considering static meshes are small as it is and can be kept nice and simple for small download sizes etc. and all the networking stuff already built in to ut....
     

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