Joining Up

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Arethusa

We will not walk in fear.
Jan 15, 2004
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For a lot of less than enjoyable reasons, I'll probably be joining up soon. I've been thinking about it for a while. I really haven't been sure I've wanted to join up, and I suppose I'm not now either, but I was fairly sure I didn't want to join as an enlisted man; at this point, however, it doesn't seem like I'll have much of a choice. As I'm 20 and still in college, I'm really not sure how this is going to affect that or what my options are for active service, but I am hoping not to spend more than two years in, and hopefully less in country. Is that even possible? I specifically want to be a ranger, but I'm not sure whether training counts as part of your enlisted time, deployment time, etc.

In basic, will I be able to bring personal posessions? Afterwards? In country? I realize, to some degree, these are questions I should take up with a recruiter soon— and I plan to— but my experience with a marine recruiter a couple years ago left a bit to be desired, and any advice or experience other members here can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'm kind of wandering blind here.
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Did you search for websites? I was curious as well and I looked around finding out that our national reserve was the perfect job for me: not allowed to use me outside Dutch borders, 14 days a year and allowed to skip a training here or there if I have an exam. Perfect for combining with study.
Searching websites did the trick for me, saw the personal experience of several and examples of the job.

May I ask why you are joining up? Espescialy these days... Army isn't exaclty being used to free anymore.
 

Arethusa

We will not walk in fear.
Jan 15, 2004
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Our own version, the national guard, is currently handling a lot of the mp duty in Iraq. Draw your own conclusions about how great that is. I could, of course, get a desk job and be safe, but the truth is that I find something seductive about such an adverse and terrible place, and there is an attraction in the camaraderie.

As for why, well... I can't afford school, and my family situation's pretty awful, so I can't keep on living here. Don't hae anyone who'd cosign loans for me, so my backs' pretty much against the wall.
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Doesn't sound too well. I would usually fully support joining the army, since it usually does help. I also understand why you would want to do it, as stupid as it might sound I'd like to experience something like that as well. Maybe afterwards I'd feel more alive.

But I don't think your back is against the wall. You could join the police as well, or become a teacher. Not sure about what kind of eduction you need for either one of those but here, in Holland, it's quite easy becoming either one of those.
 

Arethusa

We will not walk in fear.
Jan 15, 2004
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Here, you need a degree for either; criminal justice for police or education for teaching. I'm only a first year college student (and only community college, at that, because I couldn barely even afford that). Unqualified jobs don't pay enough to get a degree or do anything I'd want to.
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Leiden, Holland
Shame, I'm pretty sure a few jobs pay for the eduction (like the army does), while binding you to a contract of 4 or more years. But different countries different rules I guess. For this same reason I can't help you out with the questions, since I only know Dutch military folks.
 

cracwhore

I'm a video game review site...
Oct 3, 2003
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Sorry to hear about your situation...

As for the two years? I'm no Army expert - but I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. None of my friends that signed up for short periods of time are back yet. Some of them signed up for the reserves in 2000 (to pay for school) - for communications and IT work. Guess where they are? Fighting.

I've thought about joining as well. I think everybody does at one point or another - once life really takes a turn for the worse.

One of the major turn offs for me is losing complete control over my life. I'm kind of afraid of what I might become. I guess to some, that's an attraction...

If I could - I'd give you my BFA. I'll probably never use it again...

Realistically, a degree is worthless. It's the person that gets the job, or makes something of themselves.

Although, there are certain employers that won't even so much as look at you - if you don't have a degree - as well as thirteen previous, respectable jobs. It's really neat trying to get a job these days...

I was about to spend every penny I had going to grad school to get my masters, but I'm not exactly sure I want to spend the rest of my life teaching kids how to hate their lives.

This country doesn't really have much of an economy anymore - just retail jobs.

I'd advise you not to go because this war reminds me kind of like Vietnam - in that - I don't see it ending anytime soon. However, I realize that you don't have many options...

Recruitment is low - it's an ideological war - they're are rumors of expansion into Iran, Korea, etc. That just doesn't sound good at all.

It's really unfortunate that this country forces the poor into the armed forces. I'm sorry that there aren't more options for you. What kind of jobs are available to you right now?

You could start your own business on the side - fixing people's computers - things like that. There are always going to be jobs like this, as long as people use machines. You'd be surprised how much you could make fixing things. Most of the machines we use are built to break. They were designed this way to make us more of a disposable culture - to buy another when the current breaks down.

If you're good with your hands and like being outdoors - you could join a landscaping group. Those guys make some serious money - especially when doing jobs for country clubs and rich estates.

A few buddies of mine work at universities - in the IT department. Most of their work is helping useless secretaries use Outlook Express, making coffee, etc. Easy stuff. Some of them threatened to leave when they graduated, and now, they're making a decent amount of money for little to no work (since they're the only ones that know a damn thing). That could help pay for your education - if those positions are open to you.

At my school, the teachers, janitors - basically, every employee, besides student employees - get to take free classes. And if not totally free - close to it. That's why most of those guys work there.

What did you want to go in to anyway?

You might want to talk to 'KeihasWarrior' from our clan about becoming a ranger, or joining the Army in general. He's been researching it for a couple of years, and I'm sure he'd be able to help you find out some good websites and such.

Best of luck to you. Sorry for the long post.
 

L_S

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Nov 24, 1999
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Hey man, I've been serving in the active army as an infantryman since February 2002. I've addressed your questions below and will happily answer anymore that you have.

Arethusa said:
For a lot of less than enjoyable reasons, I'll probably be joining up soon. I've been thinking about it for a while. I really haven't been sure I've wanted to join up, and I suppose I'm not now either, but I was fairly sure I didn't want to join as an enlisted man; at this point, however, it doesn't seem like I'll have much of a choice.
This is not a good reason to join. In my experience, most (most, not all) people who join up because it is their "last resort" end up miserable. Do it because you want to do the job.

As I'm 20 and still in college, I'm really not sure how this is going to affect that or what my options are for active service
I was 23 and still in college when I joined up. This will not affect your options at all, in fact depending on how many college credits you have, you may be able to come in as an E-2 or E-3 instead of an E-1 (E-4 if you have a degree)

but I am hoping not to spend more than two years in
Some MOS's (military occupational specialty or job) do allow you to sign up for as little as two years (at least when I signed up, not sure anymore) HOWEVER no matter if you sign up for two or four or whatever years, you still have an eight year total obligation to the service. After your intial time is up and you get out, you are put into the IRR (individual ready reserve) and can be called back up to eight years from the first day you came in. This doesn't happen often (I have heard of a few people who got notices to come back lately though) and the majority of people don't report back anyway (but can get into some sh1t obviously).

More commonly though the army will stoploss soldiers. That is, before they get out the Army will extend their time in.

and hopefully less in country. Is that even possible?
If you join up, you will get deployed sometime guaranteed.

I specifically want to be a ranger, but I'm not sure whether training counts as part of your enlisted time, deployment time, etc.
From the day you get to basic your time in service starts counting down no matter where you are or what you are doing (school, deployment, whatever).

If you want to go ranger, you will sign up as an 11B (infantryman) and you can try to get RIP (ranger indoctrination program) in your contract. This is no guarantee that you will go to ranger school or ranger batt but it gives you a chance. If you fail RIP or don't get it in your contract, you'll have to wait until you get to your unit. Usually you'll then have to wait until you're an E-4 or E-5 at least to get a chance. To increase your odds, try to volunteer for a recon or lrrs platoon when you get to your unit. I recently attended the pre-ranger program at my unit so I could go to ranger school but didn't make the cut :( Tho I'm not too worried cuz I'll get another chance soon.

How good of shape are you in? My platoon mate is actually down at ranger school now. He made it through the Benning phase and is now heading to mountain phase so he had a chance to call me. His class started out with 360 people and is down to 104 now :)

In basic, will I be able to bring personal posessions? Afterwards? In country?
In basic, the only personal possessions you can bring are like religious items or a picture or two of your family. Once you graduate basic, the army will ship all your household goods to your new unit for you.

I realize, to some degree, these are questions I should take up with a recruiter soon— and I plan to— but my experience with a marine recruiter a couple years ago left a bit to be desired, and any advice or experience other members here can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'm kind of wandering blind here.
Like I said, feel free to ask me anything. I'll tell you the truth, your recruiter may not. And for the love of god don't join the marines!

With all that said, I've really enjoyed my time in the army and recently reenlisted to stay in until 2010. Done some cool sh1t, been around the world and back a couple times, made some friends. There are some awesome times and there are some utterly cr*ptacular times, you just have to keep your head up the whole time and you'll have fun.
 
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5eleven

I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain
Mar 23, 2003
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Excellent post, L_S, couldn't have said it better myself. Addressed things very well. What unit are you in?
 

L_S

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Nov 24, 1999
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I'm in the 25th Infantry Division out here in Hawaii. You're also in the Army?
 

Mappie

--Total World Domination--
Nov 9, 2002
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Hey LS, My brother was in the 25th light mechanized infantry in Hawaii as well. He was stationed on schofield barracks. He was in a few years ago. Maybe you know him.

Anyways, Arethusa, if you have any questions about the Air Force. Ask me, I think if your looking for them to treat you well and take care of you, you are better off in the Navy or the Air Force.
 

5eleven

I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain
Mar 23, 2003
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No, not currently, but 82d Airborne Division, 87-90. I have two good high school friends and we all enlisted together, one served in the 1st Cav, and the other served in the 25th Infantry.
 

U/D/T/SNAKE

Only partially annoying now
Is this just army talk or can any ole grunt Leatherneck chime in?

As for the original post, just show up. Im pretty sure the Army is like the Marine Corps where you just bring yourself to recruit training and thats it. In fact, I do recall guys showing up at MCRD Parris Island with all sorts of crap like they wre going on a vacation or something. All that does is shorten the time it takes for you to say to yourself "this sucks...and im really hungry" meaning your receiving intructors (not sure how the Army works, in the Marine Corps you dont meet your DI's for around 3 days and just go through a sleeples sort of processing) will just get pissed and start ****in with you.
 
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L_S

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Nov 24, 1999
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Mappie said:
Hey LS, My brother was in the 25th light mechanized infantry in Hawaii as well.

That's cool, what battalion was he in? btw ain't no "mechanized" out here ;)

Is this just army talk or can any ole grunt Leatherneck chime in?

Well I'm fluent in Jarhead, so I can translate for you ;)
 

U/D/T/SNAKE

Only partially annoying now
Must be nice livin there dogface:D , a grunt with internet, whats next. Call me Old Corps but the highest tech we ever got at 1st MarDiv was a beer machine at the exit end of our barracks where we would stand duty. I know things are changing but Im still pissed that the attrition rate for both of our branches is so low now, anyone can go through. Used to be only around half the guys would make it through bootcamp. We started with around 90 guys and graduated 33 originals...shame. I watched a show on MCRD on discovery and was truly shocked. These DI's were actually sort of nice and helpful and trying to motivate recruits. Christ, my DI's were constantly telling us that "my job is to make you fail...SO JUST QUIT....SSSMACK!!! Im sure army basic has undergone some of the PC changes as well. I sure its not helpful. I have spoken with some guys that I still keep in touch with and they always tell me how new marines out of infantry school are pretty damned undisciplined and they have allot of problems with them. Things need to get back to the way they were. The idea is to put so much stress into those young kids lives that they either quit or start shaping into a solid soldier or marine this politcally correct crap is not helping. I mean we all know what these guys are training for and it aint a hike through some camp trail. I mean cmon I remember literally being knocked the **** out cold after a pt run and I was a little dizzy (hot on parris island) and I wasnt getting out of my gear fast enough so the one DI struts over and is screaming at me then the other then I hear TAKE YOUR ****IN TIME then wump...right on the back of my head as I was bent down doing my best to take off my boots and uts...I came to seconds later and all 3 DIs were standing over me screaming and kicking me and yelling for me to quit...I just hurried the **** up even more. See, point is thats alot of stress and after a while you get to a point where it happens all the time and you can take it no matter what you can stand there, focus, not get rattled, get into the zone and just do it. I can tell you I drew on those experiences the first time I came home with a combat action ribbon. Holy crap, I degress yet again...this stuff just pours outta me. Sorry
 

L_S

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Nov 24, 1999
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I just came in in 2002 so I don't have anything to compare it to, but things are a bit more p*ssified than what I expected it to be like. It is funny though like you said, once you go through certain situations, there is really nothing that can rattle you anymore. When did you serve?
 

U/D/T/SNAKE

Only partially annoying now
82 - 92. Christ if I would have stayed in Id be retired a couple years ago...or at least eligible. I just turned 40 couple months back. Went to college and now lead a pretty boring life. I was first at 2nd Recon battlion , part of 2/8 BLT 24th MAU, then at 1st Recon, 1st Mardiv in support of FMFPac operations.



Edit: for the one thinking of joining up, heres a pretty good marine Video:http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...o=6&tt=220&p=marine+corps&size=32.2MB&dur=193
 
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5eleven

I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain
Mar 23, 2003
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:lol:
Yeah, you can chime in Snake, lol.

We had the same thing in basic - didn't meet our Drills for about 3 days. I remember vividly, this PFC that was permanent duty at the reception station......yelling at us, us being afraid because we didn't know any different. Of course we never saw the asshole again after we made it to our basic training platoon. I also remember making the mistake when getting picked up by our Drill Instructors at the reception station. Standing in formation, at attention.....I made the mistake of glancing over at my DI as he approached. You can imagine.
I can remember in '87 being told not to worry, that the instructors couldn't touch you, blah, blah, blah. I found out firsthand that was horseshit.
Internet. God, we didn't have anything like that either. I hear tell at Bragg that they actually have a telephone jack and cable in the barracks. I can still remember trying to watch television on an old black and white 13" with rabbit ears. :lol: And BEER MACHINES! LOL! I remember that the barracks had those, but some six months after I was there, they were removed. They were really just soda machines, full of beer. LOL! Ah the good old days. :D
L_S said:
I'm fluent in Jarhead
:lol:
 

L_S

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Nov 24, 1999
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We had the same thing in basic - didn't meet our Drills for about 3 days.
Believe it or not, it was so backed up when I first got to basic that I sat at reception for 22 days!! Got all the processing done in 3-4 days then ate, slept, and got smoked for the rest of the time. Didn't actually start basic for almost a month!

God, we didn't have anything like that either. I hear tell at Bragg that they actually have a telephone jack and cable in the barracks. I can still remember trying to watch television on an old black and white 13" with rabbit ears.
I'm an NCO so I had the opportunity to move off post a couple months ago, making a pretty penny too with BAH out here in Hawaii. Judging from stories I've heard about how things used to be you guys would probably flip your lids if you saw the new barracks out here.:D
 
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U/D/T/SNAKE

Only partially annoying now
Hehe yes sir the good ole days. Funny about you lookin at the DI. Big mistake "GET YOUR ****IN EYEBALLS OFF OF ME...GETEM OFF!!!! THUMP!...LOL. So damn funny. Ive done it and paid the price as well. Its like they had farkin radar. I swear they could be talking in a circle 30 yards away and I would take the opportunity to say something to the recruit next to me, I'd probably get out just a "eh" before "WHOS RUNNIN THEIR FACE!!! GET IN MY PIT!!! (giant sand pits all over parris island) NOPE TO SLOW GET IT BACK!!! PIT! GET BACK!!NOW WERE GONNA PLAY GAMES...JUST BEGIN!!! Sheesh I didnt even get to say anything.

I think we got rid of the beer machines too. Thank god for the armed forces network and general hospital or we'd have nothing to do.