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I've had it.. (prone vs lean)

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by Draco-1, Jul 2, 2001.

  1. Draco-1

    Draco-1 I've been to hell, and I spell it DMV.

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    Proning, for anyone who hasn't read the updates, is very much bugged. Your hitbox becomes abnormally small and doesn't emcompass your whole body. What does this mean?

    A. Someone who is prone can do so in a corner and have more than half their body hidden by the walls and floor.

    B. A proner can go prone on a ledge, have a full field of fire, but CANNOT be hit from anywhere below him. Someoen firing at the proner MUST be at a level or higher to be able to hit the hitbox.

    C. A proner can flop onto his stomach in an instant, regardless of the injuries it would cause, allowing them to duck incomming fire from only a couple feet away.

    D. Even if you do have an angle on a proner, you must fire at the lower-back/hip area to score a hit. Shots at the head, shoulders and legs DO NOT HIT.

    These are serious problems.

    Leaning, as everyone seems to know, is bugged as well. When you lean, the player model does not lean as much as the player's view does. This lets a leaner fire without being seen.

    Now what really burns me is that Proning is OK, but leaning will get you kicked off various servers. Give me a break. I've SEEN and KILLED leaners, which is the biggest argument I've recieved yet on why proning is ok. This is ridiculous. Either ban BOTH or NEITHER. If I want to peek around a corner, I should without being threatened with banning. But if I see someone exploiting the prone BUG, I see no reason why I can't fire when leaning.


    BOTH are bugged. BOTH confer unfair advantages to the user. BOTH will be fixed in 2.86. So it's BOTH or NEITHER admins, make your choice.
     
  2. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    yeah, you're the man!
     
  3. Pleuresaap

    Pleuresaap Corporal Cock

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    i don't mind proners because they are an easy kill but the lean animation doesn't play most of the time, wich means that the leaner doesn't actually lean but he CAN fire around the corner (appearing to shoot out of nothing) i have tested both the pronebug and the leanbug online so i know where to hit proners. But i consider leaning just plane cheating
     
  4. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    I still don't know where to shoot them...
     
  5. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    I think you have to hit the pivot:)

    or very near to the wall is they are of the lame-corner type:)
     
  6. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    I kill leaners all the time, plus most people who do lean, dont abuse it.

    So many people out there abuse the hell out of prone, and some clans are terrible for prone abuse.
     
  7. Draco-1

    Draco-1 I've been to hell, and I spell it DMV.

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    The 'animation' for going from prone to standing doens't always work. So you have people running around on their bellies at full speed, invisible behind even the lowest cover. Same for crouching and the jumping. Should we ban these too?

    It isn't just that prone can be abused, it's that it *IS* abused. Even moreso than leaning, as I've seen after MANY hours of playing.

    I won't name names, the guilty know who they are. And the fact that this quote is in this thread should clue them in.
     
  8. Pleuresaap

    Pleuresaap Corporal Cock

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    This can be forced to happen, i know how but i am not a cheater so i don't use it. It only occurs when prone, you first move forward and then use the jump key to stand up. You will emidately notice it if you do it, your viewpoint will be pron but you will move at runspeed.

    You have to hit a proner in a small upright cilinder in their ass :D
    with a full auto weapon it's easier than one would think. i suggest you find a m8 online, take him to an empty server and test the bugs.
     
  9. Tommy Atkins

    Tommy Atkins Older, but no wiser

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    I do both. Sue me.

    I prone when I'm getting an ambush together. I lean when I'm having a look around- sometimes scoped. I do know about the lean bug, so I don't press my nose up against the wall when leaning- you should still see me.

    I still get yelled at. Know what I do? Ignore it. I know I'm not exploiting bugs. most people who know me on the servers know I don't behave like that.

    And if someone does it to me? Sure, if someone starts bellyflopping in CQB I'll chuck a hissy fit & throw my toys out of the pram, but if they do it like I've laid out above- fine. Fair play to them.
     
  10. funkstylz

    funkstylz I CLEAN TEH LATRINE

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    I know it's annoying now, but these have been fixed...totally. The next release will make it impossible for exploitation of these features. Hopefully :)
     
  11. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    BTW i've found that leaning usually works. As long as you avoid closeby objects (like walls crates etc, keep at least half a meter distance from em). People shot at me before i shot at them and then complained about me leaning... wtf is the problem if you can see me?
     
  12. krate

    krate Newbie for life

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    I love lean, and I post a note that it is ok on my server when I run one, but I wish it ran correctly. I want to use lean on other servers, but most people consider it cheating so I don't now. I like to use it to peek into an area before blundering out to be slaughtered. It is one of the only counters to someone who is doing a proper job of camping. If you camp in a spot that only has one entrance, or you have a pair of campers, you can set up an almost unbeatable defensive position on some maps. My friend and I formed a defensive position in Scramble and racked up mountains of kills without moving an inch. Prone camping is also highly grenade resistant in some positions. If you walk into a camped area standing tall, you're likely to get killed. If you crawl in slowly prone, you are an even easier target on spacious maps. If someone can peek in and spot the campers, I think it makes a better match.
    Leaning, isn't too difficult to counter if you know where to expect leaners. If you are sure of a leaner's location, you can always clear them out.
    Prone, on the other hand, can be incredibly obnoxious. I also like prone when it is used realistically, but it is so annoying to unload a clip into someone's head at point blank when they are sitting above you on a crate with no effect. There are some points on many popular maps where a high-camping proner is almost impossible to get with anything but the most carefully placed grenade. There is a nasty girder position on Dockside Mill which was camped. The camper was there every round. I could come around to either side and get off a good dozen scoped M16 shots into every part of him, but nothing would do damage, and I'd get killed every time I tried.
    Prone and lean are fantastic for interacting with the map and terrain, and they are some of the things that makes inf much more interesting than UT. I am really looking forward to having these fixed, because they can add a lot to the game.

    I was thinking about a quick-fix mod. One idea would be to sweep for leaners and unlean them and step them over to the lean direction, every so often. This would keep people from lean-camping, but you could still use lean for a quick peek.
    A prone fix might be hard to do as a mod, but it would be nice to use the earthquake effect from Unreal whenever you go prone. This jostles you around for a second, and could deter prone-hopping. Combine this with a delay in standing back up, a fatigue hit, and this would be great. You could also change the weapon to nothing, so they have to re-wield after they prone.

    I hope the official fix comes out soon! Lean and Prone are great Inf features.
     
  13. Uppity

    Uppity New Member

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    Darkbls

    AFAIK, When you are standing, your hitbox is a cylinder roughly the same size as the model - which is fine. When you prone, the cylinder still has the same diameter but it shrinks to the height of the proner (i.e. about 25cm high)

    The cylinder stays in the same place it was when you proned as when you were standing - which works out as around the ribs to the groin.

    So,

    If you are to the side of a proner - aim for the stomach area.

    If you are above a proner, aim for the lower back.

    If you are in front of a proner, just aim for the centre of mass (probably the lower face - but the bullet will go through his face + chest and hit the cylinder in his mid-section.)

    You will also find that it is this cylinder which stops the model from going through walls etc. So, the legs can go through walls, so can the head + chest, but the abdomen can't. Also you rotate around the cylinder (i.e. abdomen - hence you see proners spinning on their stomach) And the cylinder determines where you are standing - i.e. are you on the ledge or have you moved off the edge. Therefore you see ppl on crates with their legs + chest sticking out each side - and unless you can hit the cylinder which is actually on the crate (Which probably isn't in your line of sight if he's above you) then you can't kill him.

    I hope that makes sense :)
     
  14. McMuffin

    McMuffin The sh¡ttiest Infiltrator

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    Krate:

    sounds a bit complex... if I were gonna make a mutator for that I'd make it a bit simpler:

    disable shooting *while leaning* altogether

    use a modified anti-camper mute that only takes damage from people who prone for X minutes

    disable shooting while prone for the 1st X sec, so insta prone will make you a sitting duck for a bit.
     
  15. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    some peeps say leaning works as long as u stay away from near by objects, this is true, but plz still do not use leaning till 286 or maybe even later if 286 appears 2 be bugged as well....

    as 4 proning, atleast u can see em! then u can nade em, shoot em, take another route then knife em :D......

    I usually dont use instant prone, i only use prone when sniping, when been shot at from long range and i do not know where its from and when i play under the name of IT and play real lame (become a camper) :p

    4 all the peeps getting REALLY mad cuz of these bugs, take a nice long vacation, when u come back its proberly fixed :D
     
  16. Pleuresaap

    Pleuresaap Corporal Cock

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    Damn Rostam Now you revealed your secret identity you stupid ;)
     
  17. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    HAHA! I never play as Rostam any more! so .....C........K.. will remain a secret.... ^_-
     
  18. /\l!eN[RIP]

    /\l!eN[RIP] burp

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    All this will be adressed in 2.86, so hold your horses till the release...
     
  19. MadWoffen

    MadWoffen Soon! ©

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    Agreed! Have been talking this matter in my post "In general".

    Is that so hard to have an honorable attitude ?

    I don't lean, I don't prone.
    When I reload, I do it running in zig-zag or I crouch behind an obstacle.
    I used to prone for sniping but I don't do it anymore until the bug is entirely fixed.

    Now it can be possible to prone by accident (a fumble in the keyboard, already happened to me but never in front of an ennemy) or when it is the only way to access some spots of the map...

    The guy that prone or lean when firing is only a cheater and nothing else!

    Thanks for the INF team to have fixed this on the next patch.
     
  20. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    is it just me or are we all saying the same "wise" thing here?
     

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