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Is there going to be an M-14 weapon?

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by proclone1, Jan 29, 2000.

  1. profit

    profit New Member

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    //

    Deathren: 1 line post, 20 line signature, stop the madness

    [This message was edited by profit on Nov 23, 2000 at 05:02.]
     
  2. Corin

    Corin New Member

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    Sooo fetzaa, you been knockin' back a few of those grape-flavored cildren's tylenol's at parties?
     
  3. proclone1

    proclone1 New Member

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    Can we please keep this topic on the great weapon known as the M-14 please? haha not civil war muskets (they were actually for the most part rifled barrels, making them rifles) the M-14 is great for laying down a large amount of fire, be it from automatic or semi automatic fire, it packs quite a punch.
     
  4. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    Are you nuts? The on full auto, the M14 goes ballistic. Muzzle climb with that gun is pretty much uncontrollable. Believe me, I know. And even if you could keep the muzzle down, I give it 4 mags before the barrel overheats.

    I'mean DUH! That was one of the main reasons the US army wanted the M16 instead.

    In fact, all the 7.62 NATO rifles I've fired(FAL, M14 and G3) are nearly impossible to keep on target in full auto. the 7.62x39 Russian has less kick but it's not quite as powerful.

    7.62 comes into it's own in semi auto though. It's a very predictable round.

    The average accuraccy for a full auto AKM at a man sized target 50 meters away is 5 rounds out of 30. For a G3, that's 2 shots out of 20. This was determined by the SAS.
     
  5. proclone1

    proclone1 New Member

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    Well said. My Force Recon buddy said he and his 4 other teammates would have their weapons on full auto while scouting around, and if they were discovered they would just burst full automatic, but after that brief burst the weapon would be switched to semi auto in order to save ammo. The 20 meters of visibility in the jungle did not call for accuracy, so they just sprayed and prayed on full auto for the first encounter. I think the full auto could be used for real close range suprised defense. At distance, it would be horrible accuracy, meaning the user should switch to semi auto. You are most likely right about the 4 mag overheating rate, I think the m-16 can handle about 3 mags at full auto before the barrel overheats.
     
  6. Repairman_Jack

    Repairman_Jack New Member

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    Okay, you want to talk M14. That's not a problem.
    First a little history, in 1953 the countries of the NATO alliance decided to standardize ammunition and it was a matter of urgency that inspired them to develop weapons like the FN-FAL, the G3, and the M14.Most European nations went with the FN-FAL(Which I happen to prefer over the G3), but the US opted for a homegrown design. This was the M14 which is really no more than a product improved M1 Garand.
    There are many differences however, but the parentage is quite obvious. The M14 is capable of selective fire and was the first American rifle to offer that option other than the early BAR. The 20 round mag was a huge improvement over the M1's 8 shot stripper, and there is a light bipod available for use in the SAW mode.
    Even though it was capable of selective fire, this feature was usually(80% of the time) found with the selector plugged and locked to keep it in semi-auto mode only. The main reasons were that it was a little light for sustained fire leading to severely reduced accuracy and the barrel tended to overheat quite quickly. There was an M14A1 version which had some improvements to make it a better LMG, but this project was cancelled due to money problems.

    There really are no battle rifles or true GPMGs in the Roadmap at this time. I'd put my request in for the FN-FAL and the MG3, but they wouldn't see the light of day until fall at the earliest.

    ------------------
    SEZ
    Jon
    --...now where did this extra spring come from?-
    --Real quote said to self after stripping, cleaning and reassembling 16 MP5Ks--

    [This message has been edited by Repairman_Jack (edited 02-01-2000).]
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I too like the M-14, although if I had a choice between it and the M-16 I'd go with the 16. Not only is it a hell of a lot lighter, you can carry more ammo and it's controllable on full automatic. It's also got the evil black plastic pistol grip, so it's more comfortable to shoulder. I also know the M-16 inside and out (probably better than some military armorers!) so I'd be much more comfortable with it.

    The overheating problem is a little different with the 16. Right over the barrel there is an aluminum tube running the length between the front sight base and the upper receiver. Gas from the fired cartridge is trapped in the front sight base, ported through the gas tube and into the key on the bolt carrier which cycles the action. Because it's only made of aluminum, it's prone to melting if overheated very rapidly. This is sort of a fail-safe to prevent cookoffs when dumping mag after mag downrange. I know several people who've managed to melt, or at least get glowing white hot, their gas tube. Some managed to get as far as melting the *handguards*.

    The M-16 Light Machine Gun has a beefier gas tube that handles heat very well and stands up to continuous fire much better, although that system is open bolt and thus cookoffs are not a problem. Of course blowback M-16's like the 9mm submachine guns and .22 LR conversions make no use of the gas tube, although I doubt one would be firing those fast enough to actually get a cookoff.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I too like the M-14, although if I had a choice between it and the M-16 I'd go with the 16. Not only is it a hell of a lot lighter, you can carry more ammo and it's controllable on full automatic. It's also got the evil black plastic pistol grip, so it's more comfortable to shoulder. I also know the M-16 inside and out (probably better than some military armorers!) so I'd be much more comfortable with it.

    The overheating problem is a little different with the 16. Right over the barrel there is an aluminum tube running the length between the front sight base and the upper receiver. Gas from the fired cartridge is trapped in the front sight base, ported through the gas tube and into the key on the bolt carrier which cycles the action. Because it's only made of aluminum, it's prone to melting if overheated very rapidly. This is sort of a fail-safe to prevent cookoffs when dumping mag after mag downrange. I know several people who've managed to melt, or at least get glowing white hot, their gas tube. Some managed to get as far as melting the *handguards*.

    The M-16 Light Machine Gun has a beefier gas tube that handles heat very well and stands up to continuous fire much better, although that system is open bolt and thus cookoffs are not a problem. Of course blowback M-16's like the 9mm submachine guns and .22 LR conversions make no use of the gas tube, although I doubt one would be firing those fast enough to actually get a cookoff.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I too like the M-14, although if I had a choice between it and the M-16 I'd go with the 16. Not only is it a hell of a lot lighter, you can carry more ammo and it's controllable on full automatic. It's also got the evil black plastic pistol grip, so it's more comfortable to shoulder. I also know the M-16 inside and out (probably better than some military armorers!) so I'd be much more comfortable with it.

    The overheating problem is a little different with the 16. Right over the barrel there is an aluminum tube running the length between the front sight base and the upper receiver. Gas from the fired cartridge is trapped in the front sight base, ported through the gas tube and into the key on the bolt carrier which cycles the action. Because it's only made of aluminum, it's prone to melting if overheated very rapidly. This is sort of a fail-safe to prevent cookoffs when dumping mag after mag downrange. I know several people who've managed to melt, or at least get glowing white hot, their gas tube. Some managed to get as far as melting the *handguards*.

    The M-16 Light Machine Gun has a beefier gas tube that handles heat very well and stands up to continuous fire much better, although that system is open bolt and thus cookoffs are not a problem. Of course blowback M-16's like the 9mm submachine guns and .22 LR conversions make no use of the gas tube, although I doubt one would be firing those fast enough to actually get a cookoff.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  10. Repairman_Jack

    Repairman_Jack New Member

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    When I was still in the service as an armorer, we had a Reserve Drill Sergeant who, during his two week summer camp at Bragg, managed to warp a barrel by going full auto with an A1 and blowing through 22 30 rounders. He managed to heat the gas tube to the point it swelled and collapsed in on itself. Can you say Article 15?
    If a GPMG was in game, there would have to be some way to simulate barrel replacement. The M14 is an excellent weapon, unfortunantly, its place in the food chain is already filled by the PSG-1.

    ------------------
    SEZ
    Jon
    --...now where did this extra spring come from?-
    --Real quote said to self after stripping, cleaning and reassembling 16 MP5Ks--
     
  11. PeCe

    PeCe New Member

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    *harr* military service named "bundeswehr"

    bäää

    but G3 is cool
     
  12. INF_Neo

    INF_Neo Infiltration Sound Engineer

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    You too? Ah, at least I'll get to know the G36
     
  13. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    Gimpys are nice.

    I knew one one guy whose A1 practically exploded in his face when he hit a double load. He blew the reciever out of the ejection port and the T-bar hit him in the face and fractured his cheekbone.

    The guy beside him had 17 seperate pieces of brass in his shoulder. That was the last time we used re-loaded bullets.
     
  14. INF_Neo

    INF_Neo Infiltration Sound Engineer

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    ouch!
     
  15. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    Did I mention I got hit by part of the reciever? And I was 20 meters down at the armory!
     
  16. INF_Neo

    INF_Neo Infiltration Sound Engineer

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    You too? Man, this is weird


    [This message has been edited by INF_Neo (edited 02-01-2000).]
     
  17. proclone1

    proclone1 New Member

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    The post about the M-14's position on the food chain has already been taken by the psg-1. This saddens me, because the psg-1 is too weak in the game for what it is, a sniper rifle. I've hit a guy 3 times in the chest and he didn't go down. The M-14 would take that bastard's chest with him (but then again in real life so would the psg-1). One problem I have with inf's psg-1 is that the rate of fire is too slow, there's too much of a delay between, I think. That's just my opinion, but how about this, what if the Infiltration team made a replacement model for the M-16? Have the client choose which model he used, the M-16 or an M-14, and let him pretend! Oh well, I love the mod anyways
     
  18. Repairman_Jack

    Repairman_Jack New Member

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    Well, strictly speaking you could make an excellent case for making the PSG-1's rate of fire even slower. It is typically issued with a 5 round magazine, is frequently found as a single shot weapon.

    ------------------
    SEZ
    Jon
    --Infiltration-More challenging than changing the recoil spring in a M60--
     
  19. Unknown_Gamer

    Unknown_Gamer New Member

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    haha, that always happens to me. explains my lost finger....
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Jeez, all this talk of military service brings up an interesting question: how many of you have served? Personally I've never had the honor, although I'm seriously considering it. I'd probably be right at home! My main concern I guess would be a lack of action (note I said ACTION, not COMBAT) as I'd be joining the Canadian military. Ugh... That, and committing to something for so long without understanding it fully. However, I'm still young...what say you, Repairman_Jack and others?

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     

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