Infiltration Review by former US Army Infantry Soldier *long*

[zefran]

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First off, add in a skill system. We need classes BADLY. There is no chance that someone is going to be skilled with every -single weapon the game, so make different types.
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Wrong, look up the description of an 18B (MOS, Specials Forces Weapons Seargent) These guys know how to utilize every weapon never put into existance practically. All world rifles, mortars, sniper rifles, hand guns, almost all of them.

When I was in the army, I was trained to use an M24 sniper rifle, an M16/M4 rifle. M203. M60 machine gun. M240 Machine Gun. M249 Squad automatic weapon. Grenades, M9 Berretta 9mm pistol. I know a little bit about mortars. A LAW rocket launcher. An AT-4 Rocket rocket launcher. 2 different Korean Rifles. A Dragon Anti Tank Missle. Thats alot of weapons there. Im just one guy. I was skilled with all of them.

As for other skills, I was a combat Life Saver, a truck driver, a HAZMAT semi-specialist, a mechanic, a bus driver, I could set up DZs for airborne ops and LZs for helos. I had Airborne training.
Some other bulldish here and there.

Remember this quote,
"An Infantry Soldier must be able to do everyone's job, but not everyone can do an Infantryman's job."

Skill system is not the way to go.




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impliment some sort of system like CS has, where you move SLOWLY when using a scope.
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Good Idea. You can't move very fast when looking through the scope.




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Ballistics for everything would also make a huge improvement. I tire of this "aim and wherever the crosshair is, it is dead on" crap that I see in all of these games.
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Out to 300 yards, where I put my crosshairs is where my bullet went. In INF, your not shooting to much further than than.
To shoot farther, it was about a half a second adjustment to the elevation knob, and I could shoot at further targets. That "dead on crap" is how it is in real life when you zero your weapons sights to your eye.




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I have spent many years shooting various guns myself and the thing is aligned to fire accurately at ONE range. Closer or farther out, it requires you to make an educated guess and manual adjustment.(rangefinders help lots)
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An educated guess(Kentucky windage) is for weapons with fixed front a real sights. A Mil Dot scope is easily adjustable. You learn how to use the mil dots to adjust everything, not to hard with practice. When my rifle was zeroed, on a pop up target range, with targets from 50-300 meters, with 40 bullets, I could hit 39 targets. (never did get 40/40) At a zeroing range, I could put 3 bullets holes on a target that you could cover with a nickle, dime or quarter. Im no body special. We could all do that pretty much.
RangeFinders are good for snipers, but with a mildot scope, you dont even need that.





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Most serious guns have elevation marks on the crossairs(or a nice flip-up type if you have iron sights) to give you a idea of how to adjust. Sniping at someone should take time and require you to adjust for range.(Wind as well)
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I discussed this topic in another post. Without being outside, and without an effective wind engine, we will just have to assume the sniper (you) makes those adjustments. You are a soldier after all, and doing it on the computer would take alot longer than in real life, because we don't have long distances to shoot over.






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Notable exception - low-power scopes mounted at the end of the barrel. Not usually done, but if you have ever used one, you'll love it. They allow you to get an accurate shot and still have the kind of speed you get out of iron sights.
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This falls under the to many attachments discussion we had.






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- Add in a laser for most other weapons and a LOT more trouble aiming while moving unless very skilled. Make them plainly visible to the enemy at a HUGE distance compared to what you can see with the dot. Also they are nearly useless in daylight.
(ie: take a flashlight out to a park - how far can you see with it and how far away can your friend see you using it?)
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A laser and a flashlight are two different things. Lasers are light concentrated, and are great for the day or night. Although, at light, a Infrared laser works much better.





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- Many more dark areas. IR should be a all but required when going into a dark and smoke-filled building.(time to turn on the laser as well, lest you shoot your own guys)
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IR is not going to do jack for you in a smoke filled room. Your just going to see smoke and light being dispersed through the smoke.



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- Make it so you don't die - you are just too wounded to fight. Less dramatic, but more realistic. Save dead and gone for being hit with explosives(grenade in your chest, rocket, whatnot) and simmilar gruesomeness. Sure, headsots and such are lethal, but you people don't drop dead 5 seconds later - it usually takes them a while to actually die.
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Thats, well, just wrong. If I shoot you in the face, you are going to die right away, and if you are wounded, Im going to come over and double tap you in the head and your dead anyway.






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More realistic would be to have 2 types of damage - lethal and non-lethal. You can be out of the game for either, but lethal has the added problem of getting worse(bleeding). Maybe have a medic option/first-aid pack and it takes you literally 30 seconds doing nothing else to stop the bleeding - not likely to be enough time, but hey, it's there.
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This falls under the, if I wound you, Im going to come kill you now.






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- To be honest, in RL, grenade-launchers *are* badass. Make the maps have much more hard cover. They will run out and especially so if they only are useable at 50-100ft+ With FF on, there is no way that they would dare shoot it with their buddies nearby - only to soften you up or to lob into a window or room.
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10 meters is their usable range, anything less and your just going to be mad, anything more and your dead. I agree they are to underpowered now.




-Jason

 

[Plekto]

I still think that the game should require people to do the adjustments themselves as it leads to the UT and CS type point-and-click while doing ballet type crap.

As far as skills go - sure - you recieved training in all areas, but you were okay at some and extremely good at others. My idea is to have a basic level of competance and then a few personal tweaks on top of that. Nothing nearly as huge as most games do.

You want to be a better sniper than anything else? spend the few points there. If you want to be faster or stealthier, go there. You aren't going to be superman, but it will help a little, especially with aiming, jumping, and so on.

About aiming - I was talking about close combat. It is ubsurd how I get hit all the time by someone using a scope at 10 ft. I'm a larger target and again - point and click.

Wind would be cool.


Lastly:
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Thats, well, just wrong. If I shoot you in the face, you are going to die right away, and if you are wounded, Im going to come over and double tap you in the head and your dead anyway.
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But that takes a few seconds, especially if you are sniping at me. That gives me time to retreat or fire off a few return shots, just like in RL.
(Headshot or grenades and such of course would mess you up instantly)

This brings up an idea - concussion grenades. Knock your opponents out and they won't GET the few seconds of counter-attacking. Walk up and pop them in the head.(evil grin)

 

[poaw]

You want to be a better sniper than anything else? spend the few points there. If you want to be faster or stealthier, go there. You aren't going to be superman, but it will help a little, especially with aiming, jumping, and so on.

I like the way Infiltration works right now. If I want to get better with the M16, I play with the M16 until I become familiar with it's ins and outs, the way it recoils and the way a five round burst sounds compared to a six round burst. I've become good enough with the M16 that I know exactly when to hit the trigger again inorder to put the first two rounds from my second burst dead on the center mass of the target while allowing the third to carry up towards the target's head.

Most people don't get that far into one weapon because they would rather be generalist, and there's nothing wrong with that. Others may be Stealth specialist because of there ability to sneak around the backways on most maps and the patience to crawl for five minutes inorder to get behind their targets.

 

[zefran]

Originally posted by Plekto

Lastly:
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Thats, well, just wrong. If I shoot you in the face, you are going to die right away, and if you are wounded, Im going to come over and double tap you in the head and your dead anyway.
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But that takes a few seconds, especially if you are sniping at me. That gives me time to retreat or fire off a few return shots, just like in RL.
(Headshot or grenades and such of course would mess you up instantly)

#1. In real life, I would have Ghillie Suit and you would never see me.

#2. (true story) A friend of mine was a spotter for a marine sniper team in somolia. Their rules of engagement were, you see someone with a gun, shoot them. They were sniping from rooftops with a .50 cal sniper rifle.
They saw someone with a gun. He was on the other side of a car.
They shot him through the car window. The section from the left side of his neck, to the bottom of his right ribcage became seperated from the rest of his body. Pretty much, ripped in half. I would say he did not die in a few seconds, he was out in a split second. So no, I snipe you, your dead. Now.

-Jason

 

[Plekto]

A .50BMG round would be a nearly always fatal experience.

As for smaller arms - yes - moving in and finishing off your wounded opponents should be there. I play a lot of CS and it sucks that you get hit and *instantly* die. You are pulling the damn trigger and nothing happens on your end if they beat your ping.

This leads to ubsurd situations and lots of rushing. Add in a 1-5 second(note you ar BLEEDING all this time and loosing vitality fast) window and watch the heroics stop.

That is if you are "dead" from small-arms fire. Like I said - major damage is going to take you out NOW. Smaller wounds require first-aid and several seconds to apply(like 10-20) or you keep bleeding until you die. This is assuming a dual-damage system so that falling too far will only break your legs but not instantly kill you, while a headshot certainly will mess you up fast.
(obviously falling 4 stories will kill you, but 10 ft shouldn't unless you are already messed up)

 

[Kuroshio Apocal]

I agree with Plek.