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INFILTRATION 3

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by Psychomorph, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. XClutchX

    XClutchX New Member

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    I've made maps, but not for Inf. I know it's time consuming, but I don't care. That makes it better. Plus, after a while mapping gets easier and faster if you know what you're doing. I'd have to play with making my own "pre-fabs" or whatever to see if I'd change my opinion.

    Mapping in Ued is so much fun, IMO. Of course, I never really mapped for INF because I enjoyed making fantasy maps for UT for than bad versions of real stuff. If I were to really get into making realistic maps, I'd probably go around taking pictures of real places just to get good ideas of what they look like. It helps to make maps after stuff you've seen.

    Anyway, I have to get a fast computer before I can even attempt to try out these games.
     
  2. Domino

    Domino < Phoenix Rising >

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    If it's not broken, don't fix it. The Unreal engine has worked just fine all through the stages of INF.

    I would like to see INF for UT3. The graphics are simply amazing, and the vehicle support also gives me nice ideas for urban style covoy type missions (You're in a hummer traveling down a street when you're ambushed or something)

    Unreal Tournament 3 is where it's at, my friends.
     
  3. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    Since INF2.9 ain't broken why have a new INF at all?

    From my uneducated point of view (means not digging into SDK and moddability of UT3 nor Crysis) I've yet to hear an argument why you should prefer UT3 over Crysis. Especially with the huge amount of extra work on models, skins and animations for realistic weapons, soldiers, verhicles and maps that you basically get as a free starting-asset (to be refined along the way) when you choose Crysis...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  4. ant75

    ant75 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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    QFT.
    I don't see why we should give up a feature that makes Inf unique for something that has been done a thousand times... I don't care if "americans vs middle east" is more "historically accurate", it's just so ****ing unoriginal.
     
  5. Domino

    Domino < Phoenix Rising >

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    I'm not sure I see a bunch of stock graphics and models as a huge plus...
     
  6. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    I guess you are a patient man ;)

    A first release within month instead of years sounds like a huge plus to me... :)
     
  7. (SDS)benmcl

    (SDS)benmcl Why not visit us here in the real world.

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    Guys the most important thing is what is under the hood of both engines. How good is the net code? How do you deal with cheaters? Can everything on the to do list be done? There is no point on deciding based on what meshes and materials are provided if the engine can't do what is required. Lets face it assets can be created completely from scratch. Requires a larger team but it can be done so this aspect is not really the deciding factor. Also I do hope, if it goes to Crysis, that at some point all the assets are replaced to avoid that sameness look to everything else.

    So until the Crysis SDK is released, April I last heard, and the coders go through that, it will be impossible to decide.

    As for who v. who. This can all be decided at the map level. Really once the core of the game is done it can be up to the map makers to make the actual game. Sure at first that sort of thing would be decided upon and done by the team itself but once it is released into the wild, as long as the tools are there, mappers can decide.

    While it may seem that Crysis offers a short cut to faster development now I would hate to see down the road that it is a dead end and the team can't get to where they want with it.

    PS: Not sure if anyone else is interested but with the next patch of UT3 we can have 32 on 32. Imagine 32 on 32 Inf.

    Edit: Man I got to replace my avatar, sig and user name.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  8. XClutchX

    XClutchX New Member

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    Look at all of the games coming out using the Unreal engine. I don't see too many limits there.
     
  9. (SDS)benmcl

    (SDS)benmcl Why not visit us here in the real world.

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    Due to the fact they have access to the source code and can modify it as they see fit. There are restrictions on what can be changed by a mod or TC.
     
  10. MP_Lord_Kee

    MP_Lord_Kee New Member

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    Crap, lost a long post due to sausage fingers....oh bummer. Well, I'll just put this down in short form.. I have studied both engines extensively for the past 1.5 months.

    At this point, I feel Crysis is the better option for Inf3 when thinking purely mapping. The work flow is very fast to create a believable terrain map. The Sandbox2 editor is pretty versatile, with niffy tools to create roads and rivers, vegetation layers etc. The prefab issue is not really an issue, as the same work is required on both engines in either case. Crysis engine doesn't require you to create a tropical island map...you can do basically anything you want....urban, desert, arctic whatnot map, as easy as a tropical one. Items placed in the vegetation layer reacts to wind if you so choose automatically...etc

    UT3 maps seems to be a lot of trickery for eye candy. The basic DSP used on the maps is rather simple and static meshes and light modifications with heavy usage of materials for optical illusion are used, making mapping not as stright forward as on Crysis. If you want to build buildings from DSP in UT3, you can do the same exact thing in sandbox2 with the solid tool (creates static brushes). In sandbox2 you get voxels, so you can dig a cave on your map with ease...etc etc.

    So purely from mapping point of view, Crysis is much better suitable for Inf3 than UT3.
    The Crysis SDK is what this all basically hangs on. What will it enable? Importing static meshes/brushes is already possible without the sdk btw.

    And hey, greetings from India :) Been here for a couple of weeks on business :)
     
  11. Carpetsmoker

    Carpetsmoker Nexus-6

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    Hmm, I thought "Infiltration 3" was renamed to ground branch...
     
  12. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    We got the Crysis Engine now. Why wait. Ground Branch wont be out for years. We can probably even get our hands on the Pre SDK.

    People could start gathering textures, making models, and mapping right now.

    Besides, you got to think. Crysis game was made for ten year olds. Im betting soooo much more can be done with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008
  13. (SDS)benmcl

    (SDS)benmcl Why not visit us here in the real world.

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    Actually you can't.
     
  14. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    till someone leaks it...
     
  15. MP_Lord_Kee

    MP_Lord_Kee New Member

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    Won't happen as it hasn't happened yet and mod teams have been using it for months already. The developers are very unresponsible when it comes the the pre-SDK and there seems to be no way to get access to it. Also not clear what it will enable once released. Apparently it should make possible same kind of things as the Far Cry SDK...*shrug*

    //K
     
  16. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    If you guys are looking for a fun online multiplayer, try Crysis' Power Struggle.

    Pretty hard game. After an hour of play, I had 1 kill and died about 20 times. :p Some bugs and cheaters, but really addictive. Next patch 1.2 coming out is supposed to help kill the cheaters.

    For those who want to play, the tutorial sucks and explains little, so I'll say what I have discovered here.

    1. Capture the alien energy deposits. You only need to control these until your power supply is at 100%. But of course, keeping them from your enemy is priceless as well.

    2. Capture the prototype labs. This is where the energy goes and it allows you to purchase enemy weapons. Half energy gives you the ability to buy alien weapons. Full energy lets you buy shoulder and vehicle launched mini nukes and singularity weapons. You can use these to destroy the enemies base and win the conflict.

    3. This game is like CS in that you get points for killing enemies, capturing depots, labs, etc. There is also rank involved which gives you base points. More rank, more base points every time you spawn. Points let you buy weapons at spawn and at the protolabs. Also the vehicle factories. Hit the P key to purchase.

    4. An interesting thing in the game which I really like is that except for the bases, you can capture spawn places, which are called bunkers. So capture a spawn place behind the enemy and it gets interesting!

    5. Lots of interesting weapons, accessories, and vehicles. BIG MAPS!
    Trucks and Hummers are around for a reason.
     
  17. jayhova

    jayhova Don't hate me because I'm pretty

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    In the UT3 vs. Crysis debate, Crysis seems to be the horse to bet on. While UT3 is arguably a more modable game Crysis now has a larger install base and is generally a more advanced engine. Crysis also has the advantage of being better set up for large outdoor environments. Crysis is also closer to being what INF should be . Bots in Crysis will hunt and use cover in a much more realistic way. This behavior is very useful and could probably be modified to fit even better into an INF mod.

    Apart from engine issues my opinion on where the game play aspects of INF should go is that more emphasis should be placed on realism and realistic situations. To accomplish this INF should be more flexible in defining soldiers roles and team goals. Spawns should be modified to prevent spawn camping or eliminated entirely. That is to say that spawns would jump into the bodies of existing bots either in country manning their posts or inbound on a transport. An example of this sort of scenario might be this:
    Command has determined that enemy base may be building VX based weapons. Locate, and designate the building for air strike, locate and acquire documents describing other VX producing locations, rendezvous with and extract our agent in the complex, eliminate any targets of opportunity. Avoid detection as long as possible. Once detected reinforcements will be sent in to assist you. Note that we will not be able to commit additional forces until certain objectives are met.

    In this scenario the defenders will have a much larger force but will be required to defend a number of targets without knowing ahead of time which assets will be targeted. Players may be penalized for abandoning their posts without orders or contact with the enemy especially if the location they were to be guarding comes under fire, etc. Players may take the role of either a command level soldier directing others to defensive points as necessary or as a grunt locating and destroying the infiltrating forces. The infiltrators on the other hand will need to setup diversions, locate assets and evade detection. Spawns for the defending forces will be taken from bots already manning posts inside the complex. Spawns for the attacking forces would be coming in on transports. Attacking forces may need to suppress fire on LZs where transports will be landing additional forces. This will make the game much more complex forces will need to be designated to defend the insertion point as well as to infiltrate the complex. Other forces might be designated to produce a distraction and pull forces away from protected assets.

    I envision an INF of the future as a mod very friendly towards the creativity of the mapper while giving more control to the map host as well as offering more choices to the player on the tactical level. Weapon choices should be able to be assigned to the player based on his role and the conditions of his forces i.e. Western forces will favor NATO weapons while other forces will favor the eastern block weapons. Players may be assigned weapons and allowed certain upgrades and add ons.
     
  18. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    Well, this mod seems to be truly dead.

    I think the best bet on seeing something similiar to Inf is the Obsidian Edge 2 mod for Crysis. Hopefully patch 1.2 and the SDK will be out next month. This will take care of the cheaters and we can start modding and making better maps.

    I invite you guys to come on over to the InCrysis forums and give input on Crysis and Multiplayer Power Struggle. Im Logan9773 over there.
     
  19. GalZohar

    GalZohar New Member

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    Some of you may remember me posting here some years ago, most probably won't. But I had been playing Infiltration during its first days as well as during some of it's latest version days. The reasons I stopped playing it was simply that it didn't manage to fully accomplish "the infiltration dream" - modeling fully realistic combat. For all these years I've always been hoping infiltration will actually live on - either as a new mod or even as a new game some company would actually decide to go ahead and make - and make properly. I'm quite sad this hadn't happened yet.

    If infiltration 3.0 would ever actually come to being on any engine whatsoever, what I would really expect from it would be first and foremost realistic mechanics. Game types and playability can always be developed, modified and balanced later on.

    The most important idea of infiltration to me is the actual simulation of a soldier. From holding a weapon and aiming down its sights (or not aiming and still trying to shoot...), to running around in full combat gear, and taking realistic damage from shots. Being an ex-combat soldier and sniper, the recoil effects in infiltration should be totally redone, basing it on personal experience of people, basic physical laws and data on the weapons. Ballistics are also a critical part of realism to me - especially for longer ranges. Terminal ballistics should also have some kind of modeling based on whatever data can be found on experiments that were done with different weapons - while this part would never reach full realism it can be greatly improved. Things like "velocity breakpoint" for fragmenting 5.56 ammo, loss of velocity over distance and critical vs superficial wounds are very important.

    At the end what I want to see is an infiltration "core" that will actually simulate everything properly, so I can go in some random map with another person and we could shoot eachother and have it feel like we were shooting eachother in real life. If done well enough, you could actually feel the differences of different loadouts (weapons, protection, ammo) would have on your performance in combat, and have a strong relation to how such a loadout would work in real life - unlike other games where loadouts are simply "balanced" so no certain one is overpowered.

    When it comes to loadout choices - I believe if anything is widely used enough so that enough information about it is available to model it properly - it should be in game and equippable. I don't want your grandma's home-made self-designed handgun in the game, but anything that is actually used enough over the world so that enough information is available for realistic modeling has its place in infiltration in my opinion.

    Once you actually have a properly working "core" and some well-designed (read: realistic) maps are made, setting up anything between the most simple dtas to the most complicated objective-oriented game is just a matter of some balance work. But let's face the facts - since both sides will have humans in it that will want to see combat, any kind of game objective is really no more than simply encouraging combat and discouraging camping. The most basic can be seen in america's army - attack the objective or run out of time and lose. Anything beyond that (more objectives, reinforcements, more/less time) is just a matter of balance.

    What really matters is the "core" though - having a realistic combat system that will be the basis for all of this. As without realism, no matter what kind of maps and/or game types you have, it just won't live up to "the infiltration dream".



    As for myself, I've been playing world of warcraft for 3 years now, and possibly finally quitting it. After finishing the military service 1.5 years ago I went to study physics and computers in university (during my 2nd year now), so who knows, maybe I'll actually have some knoledge in the future to help more than just throwing ideas around and tossing some bits of military experience.
     
  20. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    Power balance is pretty good at keeping things moving around the map. Its knid of SciFi, but Im sure Inf developers could come up with some modern equivalents.
     

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