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INF-mod to Battlefield-games!

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by ZIRB, Jul 12, 2004.

  1. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    The thing that really separate Infiltration from other shooters are in my opinion the weapon simulation (most important iron sights, the free aiming system and more) and some aspects of the player body simulation (the "waving" walk simulation, how the leaning system works, the collision model etc).

    I like many other things in the Infiltration game but the above features are such good inventions that I wonder how hard it would be to do create Infiltration mods to the other favourite games I play; Desert Combat (BF1942 mod) and Battlefield Vietnam. I really like these games; the idea with often really large landscapes with possibility to drive all types of vehicles, create tremendous fun gaming. Compared to INF, the "toy" feeling is really big in these games since noone are afraid of dying. This creates some sort of Quake-gaming style far from Inf but I must say still really fun. There are many ways to create stimulating gaming.

    One goal with a INF-mod to the Battlefieldgames would be to create a mod that simply replace the simplistic weapons (it would be nice to get rid of those haricrosses for example!!!) to something close to the Inf weapon system. Above this and if it was possible perhaps the base game ideas (sort of domination system as all know) could evolve to some kind of mission based system close to how Inf work today OR BETTER to transform the "toy" factor in the Battlefield-games to something more serious.

    I have a feeling that my ideas HARDLY will be realised since many INF-players doesnt play Battlefieldgames and even fever have the knowledge to create advanced mods for them. (In that case a upcoming game called Battlefield2 seems to adapt some of my wishes --> http://www.planetbattlefield.com/bf2/)


    Image shows how it could look like in a INF-mod to Battlefield Vietnam!
     

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  2. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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  3. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    There are better engines out there... the bf1942 engine is getting pretty much out-dated. Seeing what FarCry can do in term of large landscape or the latest UT generation engine, i'm not sure that BF1942 would be a good choice. Furthermore new engines are going to get release soon™ that might also be of interest.

    The problem with INF is that it's developed by a small team, not doing in on a professionnal basis (eg. INF is not their life) and got only their spare time to work on it (and trust me, they got more then I do). In these condition, i'm sure that you'll understand that it's impossible to develope the INF on multiple platforms. Even if the team wanted to develop the mod on multiple engines, they can't and a choice would be made. And frankly, I hope BF1942 engine isn't even on their list...
     
  4. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    BF1942 may be old but the UT-engine are ancient! Anyway; what I'm after is better weapon simulation in games as BFV, DC and similar in the future. The haircross system has a really bad feeling compared to the INF-weapon system, but it seems as the huge game developers haven't realised that; they just continue with the lousy hair cross system.

    The FarCry engine are really nice, and even the JointOperations engine are really nice but I suppose the upcoming Battlefield2 will use a new engine up to date. Anyway many things about BF2 seems really promising. What about this that can be reed about at <http://www.dc-central.com/bf2/index.php>. i guess all things are compered to old BF-engine.

    Destructible Environment THIS SOUNDS REALLY INTERESTING
    Ranking System
    Reward System
    Commander Mode
    New psychics
    New dynamic graphics engine
    New Sound engine
    New soldier kits/classes
    Iron Sights I HOPE THIS SYSTEM WILL BE GOOD AS THE PRESENT INF SYSTEM
    New Vehicles
    The Teams/Countries fighting
    The new weaponry
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  5. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    I don't think the bf1942 tools are flexible enough to do anything similar to inf. All the mods I see for it just look like a bunch of property edits and interchanged models for the most part.
     
  6. (SDS)benmcl

    (SDS)benmcl Why not visit us here in the real world.

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    At the moment Far Cry is having some serious problems with the SDK so don;t expect it out anytime soon. (It is said they are legal issues). Want to learn more head over to their forums and check out all the blood on the floor. At this time it is NOT a realistic option. No SDK no mod.

    If I remember correctly yurch is correct about bf1942. Not nearly flexable enough.

    At the moment UT2K4 is still the best option. That can change but don't count on it.
     
  7. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    well BF2 isn't released yet... since the team is ready to move on to new developements now, this is problematic. Judging by the quality of the released material, it's nothing close to be released! Expect HL2 and doom 3 before it... and by then it will be probably be, like many other engines, an obsolete engine too.

    As for UT engine being ancient, for the UT99 engine, i have to agree, but the UT2004 engine is nothing close to ancient or beeing outdated.
     
  8. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    I read about a BF1942 Mod that is aiming for 'perfect' realism, whatever that means, but I think they are concentrating more on the vehicles than the Infantry.

    I read about it somewhere at http://modguide.ngz-network.de/_database/deutsch/index_modguide.php although I don't remember the name it shouldn't be that hard to find. (Not sure wether it was using modern scenario or still WW2)

    Maybe that's the best place to make yourself heard.

    On the other hand: If Inf was (where there is no evidence) moving to BF, people will pester the team for rather perfect realism for every single vehicle... which is absoulte overkill IMHO.
     
  9. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    I hope INF never has drivable vehicules. It's an unecessary distraction to the game. Having automated vehicule is fine, but if ppl start driving around, that'll be the end of INF!
     
  10. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    If INF continue focusing on infantery without vehicles it's ok for me but I don't think drivable vehicles would destroy the INF concept. It's all a question about creating maps with good ideas where the vehicles fit in naturally. Perhaps focusing on transport; not so many hangar ships possible to drive in other words!

    But MY main thought behind this posting was that I simply want the INF-weapon system in other games also. I mean let INF live with it's infantry focus but also let other games use that weapon sim system. One thing must not exclude the other.

    Personally I like infantery fighting as much as fighting using all kind of vehicles: jetfighters, helicopters, tanks, Humvees, patrol buggys, patrol boats, hangar chips and so on!!! But ok.. It's perhaps hard to make that gameplay really serious since but for me it's ok to shift between serious realistic gaming (for example INF-style) and maniac fighting as in DC and BFV.

    By the way... BFV (Battlefield Vietnam) are in many of its maps VERY focused on infantery. I'm thinking of the more tight jungle maps where even tanks are like sitting ducks since the are so clumsy in these cramped environments. To be honest I think that many of these maps could be converted INF EAS maps right away and this even if the tanks and jeeps are used in a smart way. This would create tremendous gameplay I think!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  11. zeep

    zeep :(

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    I've always wondered why there isn't inf-like mod for bf1942. Are SS really the only group in the world that want this level of realism in a mod? So many mods for bf and all are frekin crosshair unrealistic blah.

    Can't somebody make an inf mod for BF1942 with no vehicles and some 2,3 maps. Realistic weapons / speed / gravity etc.

    SS and this community are the ONLY people in the world who want this level of realism in a game.
    And dont say AA. Either you go all the way, or stay on the crosshair side, but these games and mods that don't go all the way are disturbing and childish.
     
  12. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    I agree!

    About AA... I didn't get hooked by that game and the things you point at was things I also noticed...
     
  13. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    I know this has been discussed kontroversly.

    I agree with ZIRB that vehicles implementation should be strictly connected to the mission goal. No need to compete with those BF variants. (and the realism gap between Infantry and Vehicles would ruin atmosphere)

    But for dynamic EAS, that some have been demanding for, vehicles seem like the ideal scenario. Stuff like evakuation, escort, destroying of whatever truck, jeep etc. seems extremly appealing to me without ruining anything of todays atmosphere.
     
  14. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    Scripte vehicules are fine! Like in London City Heist, the chopper rocks (if only the BOTTOM could be armor plated to...)

    In Iraq there are support choppers, but they are scripted with a sniper actor. It would be even better if the attackers could hop in those choppers and fire from them (or attack from them) without the sniper actors. Like in london, you get in them and use them. To make it harder they would only land behind the initial attacker spawn once the alley is secured. It's an idea for a INF-EAS-Iraq][ map... more things like that would be great.

    BUT... no player should pilot a chopper or even a plane. I know what it takes to pilote a plane, and if you wan't to keep the realistic side, you don't want that in INF. Or do you really want to do a 30 min checklist before taking off, chatting with the ATC, planning your fuel load, etc.

    Driving vehicules like jeeps and tanks isn't much better. Scripted vehicules would be sufficient IMO. (Like a 2t truck where the team can hop in and use it to advance... I see this as usefull in maps like the one fist is working on. Use to get moving, use to stop... the truck stays on path towards the a certain objective. Being wize you could have 2 or 3 truck parked at a stop ready to go to different objective or to the same via different roads. It's up to the mapper! )
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  15. jayhova

    jayhova Don't hate me because I'm pretty

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    I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with that assertion. Vehicles are a part of real life and as long as they are simulated correctly they could make a good addition to the game.
     
  16. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    In a future INF I vote for vehicles without scripting behaviour - but perhaps exception for planes and choppers... On the other hand INF ain't that realistic that chopper piloting would automatically mean the whole realistic kit with "30 min checklist before taking off, chatting with the ATC, planning your fuel load, etc.". A more simplistic approach as in BFV would be ok I think. To focusing the realism on other things is enough; even INF are a game and not a real simulation tool (even if that would be interesting too!).

    Scripted vehicles behave unrealistic predictable that make gameplay boring. And I wanna drive myself! The use of vehicles should be restricted only by natural limitations as cramped environments, water, buildings, risk of detection etc. As in real life... It's a map design issue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2004
  17. Crowze

    Crowze Bird Brain

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    I've always seen Infiltration as an infantry simulator. Please tell me where in the world the infantry fly planes or helecopters, or drive tanks. Maybe being able to drive light vehicles would work, but (much that I enjoy it) I wouldn't like to see Inf turn into a Mobile Forces-esque game, where the vehicles can easily be abused. Although, it would give a very good use for the RC50.

    Even if they are implemented, I'd say that they shouldn't be rushed like you see in many games - where the vehicles just have a number of hitpoints. Proper armour modelling would be essential, and would keep Infiltration on it's as-real-as-it-gets theme, but would be quite a bit of work to do in any current engine I know of.
     
  18. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    U have a point there I guess.

    Anyway, for the first, basically I want INF with a more up top date gaming engine.

    For the second I was brainstorming about the possibilities to sort of clone the INF weapon system to the other favourite games I have as DC and BFV; just to make them better with a INF-flavour but not to be seen as new versions of INF.
     
  19. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    I absolutely agree with INF beeing an Infantry simulation and I definitely don't want to see teamates shooting eachother to get a ride. Player controlled Tanks or Choppers, Aircraftcarriers or Spaceshuttles is not what I was talking about. ;)

    But scripted vehicles for the future engine seems a little too limited to me.

    Just things that come up my mind:

    - invading a small island with rubber boats would require completly different tactics wether you have 3 or 4 predefined routes or are completely free in making your way.
    - a truck could be a mobile respawn point and add a lot in concerns of tactic
    - finding and extracting a random placed truck to one of various map exits could make a hell of a gameplay
    - The specialist beeing the only driver would make this gametype more attractive


    Just imagine the mostar chopper was a truck. The map already rocks, but how much more exciting would it be to fight your way out and escorting it to one of various exit points instead of defending it. And it would really make a big difference wether you defend or attack... unlike now.

    Edit: And in terms of realism: Which Spec-Ops guy doesn't have a driving license? If you lost it for drunk driving they should put you out of service anyway and if you are too short sighted to get it at all you shouldn't even play paintball (IMHO) ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2004
  20. ZIRB

    ZIRB Inhuman

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    Using rubber boats and choppers to attack harbours and islands are things you can, and must do in some maps in Desert Combat that almost are EAS-maps in it's design. When playing under more disciplinary forms, as clan matches and using voice communication (Ventrilo) the game play experience are amazingly cool! In those gaming cases I only miss the INF weapon system and player simulation to make it perfect... Now I have to put up with those damn hair crosses!!
     

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