Idea: I'm Hit! Man Down!

[MP_Duke]

Idea -> mutator

In response to this, I've written a little mutator (non-playerpawn based) for 2.9 to addess some of these issues.
The idea has been pitched to the INF Mod Team for testing. So far, the features are as follow:

Features:
========
*Bleeding - results from being shot at an unprotected spot on the body (close to center mass).
This critical hit disables aiming and slowly drains the player's health at a rate dependent on the damage done.
Critical hits are admin configurable to restrict it to torso only or full body.

Field Dressing - This is required to halt bleeding from wounds. Using the bandage bind (mutate bandage)
you must remain stationary while applying the dressing. If you move or if you switch weapons, the process is interrupted.
Bandaging time increases with the number of wounds at one time. You can apply this as many times as needed, although
you will most likely sustain a fatal amount of damage before you can use it that much anyway.

*Fatal shots - Two additional instant-kill sections on the body: chest area (center mass) and the morbid crotch region.
Armour protects against chest shots and a part of the groin...

Disorientation - Being shot unaims your weapon, throws your view off based on damage done and momentum absorbed,
stuns and renders you unable to fire (except kabar and m67 hand grenades) for a brief moment depending on damage taken.
Note: If bleeding, you may not be able to fire for an extended period unless you crouch or prone to wear off the stunned effect.
Jumping while disoriented reduces to a limp and also extends this retarded moment.

*enabled/disabled by the admin.

 

[NTKB]

Duke, UN17 just added some features just like that, including weapon knock off like you said and also screen turning black when you get shot in the head. Why dont you consult with UN17 and Geogob, on making RT perfect with no buggy hit locations as well. I asked UN17 to allow the other features to be a seperate mutator. I would hate to see 2 seperate mutators that do almost the same thing.

 

[cracwhore]

*Bleeding - ...This critical hit disables aiming and slowly drains the player's health at a rate dependent on the damage done.
Critical hits are admin configurable to restrict it to torso only or full body.

Field Dressing - ...Bandaging time increases with the number of wounds at one time.

Disorientation - Being shot unaims your weapon, throws your view off based on damage done and momentum absorbed,
stuns and renders you unable to fire (except kabar and m67 hand grenades)...

Ok, on the bleeding, please don't make the player model actually explode a cloud of blood every second. If this is anything like the last bleeding mutator included in SWNM, please change this and get rid of the sound effect that occurs with it. Having your soldier explode while yelling 'AGH!' every second is not my idea of realism (or fun).

The bandage system hit a snag the last time around...

Shotgun wounds. Every pellet accounted for a bandage (at least, it seemed that way). You do the math...

If this 'disorientation' is anything like the 'camera bobble' effect from the (duke) nades or the missle explosion on Nevada Reseach Facility - please don't impliment it. That camera shake is extremely cheesed out and annoying. When you're shot in real life, I doubt you would bobble your head around like that...

I also have to question; why would I be able to fight back with nades or a knife, but not a pistol? Please explain what you mean...just seems odd...

So I can't fire back, but I can drop a suicide nade? Why?

I think that the biggest problem that needs to be addressed is side-strafing. Especially when you combine that with RT - you're almost invincible. Under no circumstance should a side-strafer (jogger) win in a fight against a crouched soldier that has the 'first shot' advantage. Sadly, this is the case in INF right now, and I must say - it is highly irritating.

edited for silly typo

 

[{GD}Ghost]

If this 'disorientation' is anything like the 'camera bobble' effect from the (duke) nades or the missle explosion on Nevada Reseach Facility - please don't impliment it. That camera shake is extremely cheesed out and annoying. When you're shot in real life, I doubt your would bobble your head around like that...

You sure about that, crac? How about I put a couple of rounds in you and see if this is indeed true or not. I think Duke's effort is to make it a step further toward realism than it is now. Not reacting at all when shot is alot less realistic than the proposed feature to simulate disorientation.

I think that the biggest problem that needs to be addressed is side-strafing. Especially when you combine that with RT - you're almost invincible. Under no circumstance should a side-strafer (jogger) win in a fight against a crouched soldier that has the 'first shot' advantage. Sadly, this is the case in INF right now, and I must say - it is highly irritating.

I agree 100% with this. I cannot imagine why this wasn't addressed at the time of 2.9's developement. Although I can venture to guess that addressing that would have added another 6 months to the release date.

 

[Taque]

If I'm not mistaken, SWNM dealt with the strafing issue (duh) but since it was a playerpawn mutator, it caused a great deal of problems. As for the other things you bring up, such as the grenade/knife thing, it has to do with the fact that Duke has intentionally avoided the whole problem that occured with SWNM and so far hasn't found a way around certain things. Keep in mind that he just coded this and it is far from the final version.

 

[cracwhore]

You sure about that, crac?

Yes. If I were shot in real life, I assure you, I wouldn't bobble my head around like a toy...

Besides, it's not like you'd be 'disoriented' if you were shot. You'd be in shock maybe. In pain - obviously. You might panic.

But disoriented?

'OMG! Shot! Where am I? Who am I!?'

You can't model a mental condition with a mutator...

 

[Vega-don]

strafe is the first thing that needs to be fixed . it totaly ruins the game. not realistic at all. the game is still very enjoyable, but strafe ruins the realism.

i tried to strafe at my home with something that simulates a gun, and i could strafe almost as fast as in game, but :

-a little slower
-you cant strafe for long time like in game.. the strafing should be 3steps at good speed, then coming back to walking strafe.
-you cant hold a gun right while jog-strafing. accuracy should be less than now.strafing lis like a jump , especialy when done fast. accuracy should be random,
too much random for a HK69 to be used, but good enough for someone to hit at 5-10meters with a gun
-very important thing too, try this at home, then imagine a soldier with full package, if you strafe, you need a preparation time, and during this time , you make movement sounds, . the ennemy soldiers should HEAR the person preparing his quick strafing in close combat.

now with that + acog fix, the game is perfect

 

[yurch]

Shotgun wounds. Every pellet accounted for a bandage (at least, it seemed that way). You do the math...

Why wouldn't it?

 

[UN17]

Well, in SWNM, getting hit or even slightly tagged by a few pellets meant doom. Each minor wound would be draining HP, causing 10 dmg a second bleed instead of 2. And since bandaging is per wound, there was no way to save yourself.

Never been hit by a shotgun pellet so I wouldn't know if getting 3-5 bbs in me would kill me in fifteen seconds.

 

[yurch]

I can't speak for every load but supposedly each 00 buck pellet is supposedly the rough equivalent of a .32 handgun.

Disperse any size shotgun pellets over a wide area of the human body(bandage a shotgun wound?) and I'd say you have a pretty good chance of a major bleeding problem.

If you wish to avoid this perhaps 'bleeding' should be done proportunal to the wound damage.

 

[UN17]

INF Shotty uses No.4 rounds. One tenth smaller than 00, or so the Armory info states. Anyways, it's an issue, but not a major one. I'm happy with bleeding being back. Put it up on the servers!

 

[cracwhore]

...perhaps 'bleeding' should be done proportunal to the wound damage.

More or less, what I was getting at...

Not so much that I thought it was unrealistic that the shotgun caused a lot of damage at a close range - but rather - that the system itself greatly favored the shotgun, and thus, was flawed because the shotgun made the system completely useless. In the end, it was very frustrating, especially since your soldier would continue to yell 'AUGH!' every two seconds, not to mention, emit a luminous cloud of blood out of his mangina...

Ergo, removed from the server.

The problem is, that I don't believe it's possible to ever implement wounding correctly in INF 2.9 - that is, unless we (someday) see the full release of RAv3 or it's spin-offs...

However, I still think we should worry about strafing before we worry about bleeding - although, these two (strafing / wounding) are indeed the two biggest problems in INF...well, aside from all of the bad EAS maps, the plethora of mutators that new guys must wade through to be able to pick it up, etc.

 

[NTKB]

yes i agree strafing should be destroyed utterly, perhaps no aim mode while strafing? limited distance also before walk?

 

[UN17]

What?!?! You can Aim while strafing?! That's messed up. I though you could only aim when walking! No wonder I'm getting owned by people strafing around corners and putting 13 shots into me before I can even raise my gun. Now I know! And knowing is half the battle!

 

[MP_Duke]

No, it was removed from the server because it was a playerpawn mutator as is RAv3. The bleeding feature has always been admin configurable, meaning it could be turned off. The strafing issue was dealt with way back in rav2. But back then it was ok because the community was split between rav2/vanilla players, and the rav2 players were ok with having an edited line in their ini file that prevented the GPF crash (98% of the time). The same (or similar) inertia system is in rav3 and in SWNM. But again, playerpawn mutators = GPF crash and we're apparently not ok with hacking the ini file to save this today. And unfortunately strafing control has to be in the player class in the current version of INF.

Now with this mutator, the main feature is the disorientation in keeping with the theme of this thread. The bleeding feature is just there as a feature to have if so desired; it can be turned on/off. The puff of blood while bleeding doesn't happen by the way. And no, the view throw off is not the 'camera bobble.' The stunned effect received from being shot (even with armour) means you can't fire back, drastically reduced movement speed, and no jumping. Together with changing your direction, not as severe as 180°, but enough to simulate the twists and turns you may go through from being shot, this system is quite unforgiving.

I'd say that strafing is one major problem, but one to be addressed in the next INF.

Ergo, removed from the server.

 

[sir_edmond]

I want to make a suggestion,
Can we make the bandaging system realistic?
You can't just slap on a bandage and tie it up and get up and fight again, can you?

If possible I propose this plan,
medic menu and have a drop down of procedures. i.e.

Apply Bandage- apply a standard field dressing
Apply additional pressure- adds additional pressure to stop heavy bleeding
Apply pressure bandage [medpack]-apply extra bandages only in a tighter fashion, it would be slow than apply pressure
Apply tourniquet [medpack] - applies a very tight bandage to reduce blood flow to a limb in an emergency.
Apply morphine [medpack] - injects morphine to cancel out disorientation at a coast in stamina regeneration. Warning: too much morphine is fatal.

For that we also need a medpack, should be no more that 4 bulk.
Since every troop is issued with bandages [2],
The medpack contains nothing more but extra bandages for:
Bandaging others;
Applying presure bandages;
Applying tourniquets;
Applying morphine;


NOTES: i think some of these will have to be a pawn edit unless someone can think of a way around limits.
NOTES2: I really count think off a good way to model the effects of morphine in game.

 

[cracwhore]

...medic menu and have a drop down of procedures. i.e.

...For that we also need a medpack, should be no more that 4 bulk.

...I really count think off a good way to model the effects of morphine in game.

On the first one: No.

Second: No.

Third: Brightness all the way up.

There often comes a time where doing such things becomes redundant. This is one of those times. Let me explain...

When it comes to 'healing' or 'fixing' or 'simply keeping somebody alive' - it is more beneficial to the team for them to take their losses and respawn. I mean, think about how long it would take to do all of that. Now compare that to the respawn time.

Doesn't work.

Ok, another issue is the morphine. Last I checked, they don't send you back into combat while you're high. Just seems a bit...'silly' is all...

Morphine is usually something that is applied to a soldier that isn't in any condition to fight (last I checked at least).

I'm fairly certain that morphine would make it difficult for you to fight...

In INF, the soldier often dies because the team didn't feel like coming up with some half-assed system on a half-assed engine to support wounding. That, and maybe they don't want to simulate combat - but would rather make a fun game. Either way, the solution is - 'you'd be too messed up to fight anyway, so we just round it up to the nearest value (death).'

I'll finish this response with the most pointless smiley I can find:

 

[5eleven]

Well, here I thought it was always in 00 buck, but UN's right, it's supposed to be 4 shot, which is like what, 27 pellets as opposed to 9? If they are going to implement 00 buck, why not make it in a magnum load - adds a delightful 3 additional pellets.

Yurch, how do Inf ballistics account for shot spread? The only reason I ask is that I've always seemed to notice an incredible accuracy at distance with the Benelli that is not necessarily commensurate with real life shooting. In addition, although i agree that shotgun pellets create an immense amount of tissue damage, it should vary greatly at distance - given an immense reduction in velocity and taking into account shot spread. A shotgun blast to say - a bicep within a distance of 6 feet is going to leave a lot of tissue damage, may or may not bleed immensely, and will probably not be immediately fatal, while 2 pellets in your face at say 100 yards probably will not penetrate enough to cause instantaneous death.

I agree with implementation of bobble. It's a simulation. It implements a potential effect of being shot in the only reasonable way, especially in a game. I find it hard for anyone to tell me how exactly they would react when shot. Every person and every wound is different. There are people that take several seemingly fatal wounds and continue to fight and complete the mission, while others get shot at and think they are dying. Regardless, getting hit, with or without armor is a drastic physical shock to your system. I like it, I think it makes sense.

 

[yurch]

Yurch, how do Inf ballistics account for shot spread?

Not sure what you're asking. Clarification?

 

[Vega-don]

is it possible to add more (*2 or 3) weapon bob when strafe jogging without having GPF ? that NEEDS to be in