Idea: I'm Hit! Man Down!

[{GD}Ghost]

One of the issues I have with the current version of INF is the fact that you can let lose an extended burst into a target (blood flying and everything) and the target does not even slow down as he spins, strafes and returns fire far too effectively. Armor or not, this is far from realistic.

Why not have a system where when the player takes a certain amount of damage at one time, they are knocked off of their feet. Even if a burst wouldn't kill a subject due to armor or whatever, they would not be moving about as if nothing had happened and most times they WOULD be knocked down or at the very least, be unable to effectively return fire or move very well. If knocked down, they would be able to get back up if they haven't taken fatal damage and possibly only be able to move at a "walk" pace for a few moments.

My point is that taking multiple rounds should have an effect on a player, and not only visually. They should also suffer loss of mobility and combat effectiveness equal to the damage taken, even if only for a few moments.

Hopefully, this may give players the sense that if hit, they will not be 95% effective until they lose their last point of "life" and "die". Being a little more tactically safe and covering "wounded" teammates just may find its way into the game. It might also make firing from behind cover or concealment a more preferred tactic so that if hit, ducking behind cover might give them a chance to "recover" or escape being finished off.

There are more details that I have that go with this idea, but this is it in a nutshell.

 

[NTKB]

How about making it hit you to a crouch position instead of prone, so if your allready crouching and not strafe whoring your not penalized also.

 

[cracwhore]

But before we deal with that - let's find a way to cancel a reload so that you can effectively prone for cover...or, in the case of the M249 - not die.

(see: the reloads, they're kind of a problem sometimes - it would be nice to be able to drop your rifle and resort to your sidearm if combat continues while you're still reloading, etc.)

I just think it's silly when I'm reloading my M203 and some guy strafes out at me, I can't prone so that I can at least be harder to hit. I just stand there saying, '...c'mon reload.....c'mon...'

Please, please do this before anything else.

 

[{GD}Ghost]

Well, if you're crouched and get hit with a few rounds, you're still gonna fall over.

 

[Derelan]

Well, because that would be pretty boring. All gunfights would be reduced to 'who saw who first'.

 

[cracwhore]

Ah. So like it is in real life (in most cases) then?

 

[ravens_hawk]

Or it could (heaven forbid) reduce gunfights to tactics and teamplay.

I would like to see something happen when people get hit. That being said I'm not sure going prone is nessarily the best idea. It has been said before that people react differently to being shot, some fall down screaming others don't even notice it. This is not to say we should have no reaction at all for being shot, just something inbetween would be nice. I would really like to see something happen with objects that do no damage (shotgun pellets, pistol rounds and fragments agianst armour for example.) The best I could think of would be a heavy stamina drain (that way taking a full shotgun blast to the vest still has some effect.)

I guess it comes back to how we model damage, and while we may not be able to agree on what that might be I think we can all agree that nothing just doesn't work.

 

[yurch]

It just shifts things further toward fights being won on first-to-hit basis.
Considering the already high lethality of inf, this isn't something I'd totally be comfortable with without assistance of things along the likes of RAv3 and BS4/RT.

 

[{GD}Ghost]

I'm not sure I understand the opposition to bringing an idea like this into INF. In combat, usually, if you get hit by a 3 round burst (not just one round), you are most likely rendered combat ineffective, if but for at least for just a few moments. So yes, whoever saw who first and makes their shots count is who usually wins the firefights.....which makes stealth, effective cover and movement tactics more of a necessity than an option. INF isn't lethal enough currently. Not when you can have the drop on a target, aim center mass, let loose with an extended burst, but the target somehow manages to remain standing and spin around with super human agility and take you out....all while strafing back and forth like some kind of evil dancing monkey. This just does not happen anywhere in the real world.

I do agree that a player shouldn't necessarily die faster or rounds necessarily be more lethal, but when hit, players should react in a much more realistic fashion. Soldiers that continue to fight despite significant damage taken are not the norm, but the exception. How about we lean more toward the norm when discussing these ideas.

 

[- Lich -]

I do agree that a player shouldn't necessarily die faster or rounds necessarily be more lethal, but when hit, players should react in a much more realistic fashion. Soldiers that continue to fight despite significant damage taken are not the norm, but the exception. How about we lean more toward the norm when discussing these ideas.

Well: You are right, it is irrealistic as it is now. Running over the bridge on chasm, being hit on one side of the wall by a guy on top of it, but then being able to strafe through and kill him....is far from realistic.

But if you make it more difficult to return fire, you will in all cases make the player die faster (except the other guy is opening up without thinking and not hitting anything but the wall). When you get knocked into prone, you can hardly move, and standing up is deadly, too, cause it takes a lot of time.

I think the idea of making them crouch when they are standing might(!) be a better idea (and cancel all movement orders from before, so holding the run key will not make you run again, you have to rehit the key). While crouched and hit you loose your aim, I think that is enough. I often lost a firefight cause the other guy hit me right at the time I wanted to fire and so missed and had to reaim.

But: This might make a problem with defense getting a lot easier...and spray and pray a much more effective tactic...

 

[keihaswarrior]

Well, basically we need a full wounds system instead of hitpoints. Each bullet you take needs to effect how your body functions as well as having an immediate effect when the bullet enters your body. Too often in INF, players take a 5.56 to the chest, shrug it off and return fire with extreme speed and accuracy.

The idea of bullets knocking you over is terrible. Bullets don't knock people over, this topic has been put to death several times on these forums already.

Lastly, you aren't going to have fire fights with effective cover being important until you make it harder to aim to so quickly. Any good INF player can go from unaimed jogging, to crouch aimed and killing the target up to 100m away in less than 1 second..... which is absurd.

RAv3 was a huge step in the right direction for making aim less super human, it is very unfortunate that it wasn't finished enough for online play.

 

[Vega-don]

im all good with those things..
theire is a problem with making prone when hit, theire was a mutator for 2.86 which did that. i played it online. the problem was that, when hit, the player was going prone, and most of the time he was wining the firefight because of that. he gone prone and killed the enemy next..

i think we need something like rav3 but less hard to shoot. rav3 accuracy was ridiculous

 

[yurch]

INF isn't lethal enough currently. Not when you can have the drop on a target, aim center mass, let loose with an extended burst, but the target somehow manages to remain standing and spin around with super human agility and take you out....all while strafing back and forth like some kind of evil dancing monkey. This just does not happen anywhere in the real world.

The very ability for him to shoot and kill you in that manner is a testament to inf's overlethality, the problem being his ability to do this in the first place is my primary concern, as it does not need to be precluded by taking a hit first. Making things more 'lethal' does little to stop this behavior and increases the chances of his uncontrolled shots ending a fight.

i think we need something like rav3 but less hard to shoot. rav3 accuracy was ridiculous

Some of us are of the opinion that it wasn't rediculous enough.

 

[Derelan]

So counter-strike DID get it right...

 

[yurch]

Quiet honey, men are talking.
family guy reference +1

 

[Vega-don]

when you cant hit a standing target at 50meters with a rifle...

 

[keihaswarrior]

when you cant hit a standing target at 50meters with a rifle...

Thats not true at all. It was extremely easy to kill people @ 50m. It was simply harder to do it immediately after strafing around like a monkey.

 

[OICW]

I mentioned this in a thread I posted earlier. Getting the balance between "who-ever shoots first always wins" and "the victim always wins" is extremely difficult, hence the random nature of the wound effects I mentioned in my thread.

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=111109

 

[Lasersailor184]

What I've always hated was the lack of penalty for locational damage.

I.E. TTR had it perfect I think. Say you got pegged in the leg with a 5.56, maybe 2. What are the chances that you'll be able to use that leg to move quickly?

Anyway, TTR had a simple system. Yellow meant light wound. Barely affects you at all. Orange means decent wound. It would affect you some. I.E. You can jog, but you can't sprint. Red means heavy wound. You can walk slowly, but you can't jog. One past that causes complete trauma (if you survive it). I.E. You can't even walk anymore, you're forced to crawl everywhere.

Another example, say you got a red wound on your arms. Good luck trying to snipe. It'l be swaying all over the place.

What this does is make it vital that you do not get hit, instead of just dying. Covering fire suddenly becomes much more important because no one wants to get hit.

 

[-=]N[=-ZeuS]

That, and when you get pegged in the chest by a round while wearing a vest, the damage should be reduced but you should still lose almost as much stamina as if you were not. Dunno if I'm horribly wrong but it looked to me like when I got nailed with a vest on my overall stamina dropped the same as my current stamina.

Also, the ability to render an opponent unable to fire back should be done in if possible, as mentioned above. You shoot a dude in the arm he should not be able to fire nearly as well. in the leg he crawls around. I think I remember seeing something like this a while ago with Action Quake where falling from too high broke your leg and you were forced to walk.

Also, being shot and going prone is too much. If standing, it should force you to go crouch but any movement would get you up (move forward doesnt move you forward crouch, you'd stand then move) and in all cases, being shot should send your gun FLYING in all directions. I'm aiming for your head... I get shot the the side... I open fire at the same time... the bullet hits 20m from your head.

The only time you should be knocked down is if you're too close to a nade blast or if you get smacked close range by a scatter gun while you're wearing a vest and survive. The fall motion should be that of feign death where you fall on your back but your gun would clearly be visible in your hand so as you dont mistake someone for a dead person. getting up would be as simple as pressing the walk button but it takes time to get up.

Some aftereffects of a close nade blast would be nice, like in SOCOM you'd ge deaf for a bit from the deafening sound (I'd also like it if someone would fire a heave caliber gun in your ear like the MINIMI you'd lose hearing too but, oh well)