I might be off to jail.

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AlmostAlive

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Jun 12, 2001
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I'm a nice guy. No really, I am. The closest I've ever come to being a criminal was to stand guard while my friends were cleaning out the apple tree in the garden next to my school when I was 8. Never been into any kind of trouble with the law or law enforcement. Until now, that is. It turns out self defence is an offence in this otherwise so sivilized country.

Anyway, the nightmare started on Friday. I was on my way from work, in a hurry to catch the train. I hate having to wait another two hours to catch the next train out of Oslo. As I approach the main gate to the trainstation, half walking, half running, two younger guys, around 17-18 years old, comes straight at me. Being in a hurry, I take avasive action to avoid collision. To my frustration, they do the same and are still coming straight at me, now only about 5 meters away from me. So I slow down. And that's when things start to get ugly.

I continue trying to avoid them by steering more and more to the right, failing miserably. It is obvious they want something. So I stop. Mistake number one. They ask me if they can borrow some money for train fare. I politely tell them that I don't have any money. Why the hell would I give any money to people I've never seen before and will not ever see again anyway? I'm starting to get uncomfortable with the whole situation and I decide now would be a good time to get out of it. My two newfound "friends" have other plans. One of them puts his hand on my shoulder and says "Listen, you'll give me your money and your cellphone. Right now." I shake off his hand, take two steps back and that's when I see it. His Partner in Cryme is holding something that looks like a screwdriver, half hidden, halfway up the sleeve of his jacket.

I've been in a similar situation before. I ended giving away everything I had, including my pride. The guy with the screwdriver tries to close the gap I created by stepping backwards. I'm running out of time and options and I decide I'm not going to go through what I did last time this happened. Knowing that the police won't lift a finger to catch them if I give them what I have, I decide to stand my ground. Mistake number two. I kick the guy with the screwdriver on the inside of his thigh as he comes towards me. He seems surprised. The kick isn't very painful, but he's off balance and so I move in to get the screwdriver out of play. I grab his wrist with one hand and one of his fingers with the other, quickly snapping the finger sideways and backwards. I hear and feel it break and my "friend" screams in pain and drops the screwdriver. Mistake number three. By now I know I'm in a postition to get out of the situation by just turning around and start running. But I don't. Instead, I lift my right arm and deliver an elbow the the guy's jaw, full force, as he starts to crouch from the pain of his broken finger. Mistake number four. He's out cold and his friend starts running away. The streets around the trainstation are still pretty crowded just after rush hour and people are starting to gather around. I ask one of them to call the police to tell them what's happened. Running away, leaving the guy unconcious in the street never crossed my mind. Which might have been mistake number five. I wait until the police shows up. Just a few seconds later an ambulance arrives to take care of the guy who is still unconcious. Someone in the crowd must have decided to call them too. I spend the next four hours at the policestation answering questions about everything from my civil status to my shoe size.

I'm still pretty shook up about the whole thing. I never thought I'd end up in a situation which might have gotten me seriously injured or worse. Certainly not on the relatively quiet streets of Oslo, compared to other major cities elsewhere in the world. What's even worse is that I now face the possibilty of having to go to jail for using eccesive force, or "Assault with intent to harm" or whatever the phrase is. What my two other "friends" intended to do to me seems to be irrelevant. The officer who took my statement after the fact told me they were both well known troublemakers and will most likely go to jail. Just like me. I was told that an investigation will be conducted to establish if I've done anything that could or would be considered a crime. And I still can't believe what I'm hearing.

Granted, the guy with the screwdriver was hospitalized with a broken finger and a concussion, either from the blow or from when he hit the pavement, but I'm the damn victim here! None of this would have happened if they hadn't decided that I looked like a nice target. They initiated the whole thing, not me. Had the guy not pulled a weapon on me, he wouldn't have had a broken finger. Or a concussion for that matter. I would have just pushed the asswads out of my way and be done with it. For my part anyway.

There are thankfully many If's here, but worst case scenario is that I spend a few months in jail. I just think it's so fucked up that it's even a consideration. I was just defending myself in a potentially lethal situation.

This is actually a good place to blow off steam. I feel so much better now. In my next rant, I'll be telling you how the past two weeks at work have been. But that's a whole different thread.
 
Feb 26, 2001
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Thats insane man. I hope everything works out for you, I'm glad you had the courage to stand up for yourself. 2 people come at you with a screwdriver you should have the right to fight until they go down. Its not like you used the screwdriver on the guy lying on the floor. You stayed.

Respect to you my friend.
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Like you mentioned yourself, you got your pride. It seems unlikely that you are going to jail (sounds like something rather standard that they tell you to scare you) but I think you did the right thing all the way.

Again, it is very unlikely that you will go to jail since A) you show that you are not planning to escape the country B) there is no evidence against you C) if there ever is a court, you will counter sue them and probably win.

Now I don't know how it works over there, but in the few countries I do know some things from you will walk. Just stick with the story and don't change it one bit. That's all you need to do in this scenario, I think.
 

Derelan

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Jul 29, 2002
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They're only considering you being a bad guy in the event that your story isn't true, because all they have is a guy with a broken finger and you and your story, so they have to consider everything. Its their job man :D
 

Harrm

I am watching porns.
Oct 21, 2001
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You might be nailed for excessive force for this line:

Mistake number three. By now I know I'm in a postition to get out of the situation by just turning around and start running. But I don't.

I know that you will be charged in the US for this, not sure about your home place. Rule of thumb (take this from the guy who lives in ****sville...): street fights are really never worth mentioning to the police unless you lose.

--Harrm
 

Olethros

Functional alcoholic
It seems quite plausible that the investigators "officially" won't leave out any options from the start (I.e. that the two low-lives were minding their own business when you suddenly beat the living crap out of one of them for no reason.) however implausible that might be.

I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you, and if you do get convicted I have half a mind to personally come to Oslo and picket the courthouse shouting "All coppers, judges and attourneys are bastards!" or something.
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Sounds rather strange, harrm. You can shoot a man, but not hit him twice. That and I thought every state had it's own laws.

Anyway it is of no concern in this issue since Almost did what he had to do to clear the threat, he had to be sure and act fast. One extra hit to the head isn't something you can charge a man for, not in this situation anyway.

Now if Almost here would have hear the other guy say "I give up" while he was sitting on his knees, then continue to hit him in the head a few seconds later. Then it would have been a crime. But there is no such thing. So, it is with great pleasure that I give Almost the hero of the day award. Congrats.
 

Philophobos

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May 11, 2001
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Wow...

I probably would have just shat myself on the spot. :eek:

Good job on disarming the fuckers, and major props for sticking around and not leaving the piece of shit for dead. If they do convict you and send you to prison, I'll be there alongside Olethros. :)
 

ravens_hawk

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Apr 20, 2002
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Maybe the threat of jail was just a scare tactic, I dunno much about the Law there.
But chances are even if it went to court you'd get off. The fact that you stayed around and that they were armed (I assuming you didn't touch the screwdriver so it should be fairly easy to prove it was his) should be enough to prove you were defending yourself. I mean under Canadian law I'm almost 100% sure that you would have acted under what would be considered "reasonable force." They tried to rob you and threatened physical violence with a weapon. You disarmed and neutralized one of them. Yes you could have run away but that's not a sure defense, even with one having a broken finger, he could still run after you, as could his friend, and you don't know if you could out run them. Breaking the finger might have been extreme, but you did the only thing you could think of.
Either way if you haven't already, talk to a lawyer.
Hope all goes well, if it doesn't we'll all have to come down there and create an "international incident." We can't afford to lose an INF team member! ;)
 

cracwhore

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Oct 3, 2003
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Man, I would've beaten that screwdriver fucker until he died, then I would've handicapped his 'friend' for life by forcing the screwdriver into his spinal column. After that, I'd probably make some lewd Christopher Reeves jokes, dispose of any evidence that proves I was there and call it a day. Maybe to top it off, I'd toss a few dollars on the dead guy and say, 'hope it was worth it, fag...'

The again, that's just me.

Sorry to hear that Almost. Hope everything works out for you man. Pretty messed up situation - glad you're ok.
 

5eleven

I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain
Mar 23, 2003
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I can't speak for Norway, but I'll tell you this: What you did, although not generally recommended for obvious reasons, was right. You are perfectly entitled to defend yourself and your property. In a way, Harrm is right. You were able to size up your options, and you chose to stand and fight. Turning and running was no guarantee that you would not be pursued, caught and beaten. Remember, you did attempt to avoid the situation by avoiding them as they clearly walked toward you and stopped you.

You neutralized the threat, without stabbing them in the eyes or doing knee-drops on their chest while they were down. Your response was logical, reasonable, and necessary. (Key phrase there) They had the ability (2v1 with a weapon) opportunity (close enough and actually physically touched you at one point) and placed your well-being in jeopardy (Another key phrase there).

You summoned law enforcement, or asked law enforcement to be summoned immediately after neutralizing the threat.

You stayed until law enforcement arrived, and willingly provided them with the information regarding the attack. I assume you have been cooperative throughout all stages of their investigation.

Finally, you were already a victim of violent crime once before. You got no cooperation from the police, and never recovered your property.

Having said all of that, I agree, you need to contact a lawyer as soon as possible. (My personal advice): Don't submit to any further interviews by the police unless accompanied by or authorized by your lawyer. When you relayed the story, you certainly inadvertently left out details, and over time, your recollection will not be the same as it was immediately following the event. Do not give yourself the opportunity to accidentally "change" any of your statement - that will be focused on later by either the police, or defense counsel if these jerks are charged with a crime.

In closing, I'm proud of you. You did the right thing through and through. If you ever need to vent, and you will after something like this, post away or PM me.
 
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Arethusa

We will not walk in fear.
Jan 15, 2004
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I completely agree with 5eleven that everything you did was right. But that doesn't really help you in practical terms, because apparently Norway is completely goddamned insane. I don't know your country's laws, but I'm guessing that seeking public counsel as 5eleven suggested and not talking to the police anymore would be your best course of action. Hopefully it's just typical empty blustering from prosecution, but you can't be sure. Good luck.
 

Zundfolge

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Dec 13, 1999
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Harrm said:
You might be nailed for excessive force for this line:
Mistake number three. By now I know I'm in a postition to get out of the situation by just turning around and start running. But I don't.
I know that you will be charged in the US for this, not sure about your home place. Rule of thumb (take this from the guy who lives in ****sville...): street fights are really never worth mentioning to the police unless you lose.


In the US it would really depend on what state you live in ... here in Colorado I would have been justified in shooting both attackers (1. because they had a weapon and 2. because there where 2 of them, its a legal concept called disparity of force). Colorado law doesn't have a "duty to retreat" clause when it comes to self defense ... however had he pulled the same thing in NYC he'd have probably be in the same boat he's in in Oslo.

As far as I'm concerned Self Defense is a Basic Human Right but lots of police states don't see it that way :rolleyes:

Not sure how the legal system works in Norway, but if you lived here I'd be suggesting you get yourself a lawyer ... if the evidence backs up the story you told here I see no reason you couldn't get off. Hopefully Derelan is right. A lot of cops have the "arrest 'em all, let the judge sort 'em out" type of attitude (especially when it comes to young men).
 

Keganator

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Jun 19, 2001
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I'll just reiterate what I said before in irc: I think you did the absolute right thing; disabling, and then staying with him until help arrived.

On the other hand, I would agree with Zundy and 5eleven: It's probably best that you get yourself a lawyer at this point, or at the very least, consult one.

As far as I'm concerned Self Defense is a Basic Human Right but lots of police states don't see it that way :rolleyes:

Seconded.
 

geogob

Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Well, I was going to post my opinion, but 5eleven stole my words (bastage...). I was going to say pretty much what he did.

You made the right choice and i doupt that can be considered abusive force... Still, the advice of contacting your lawyer immediately is the best one.

But in the end, I'm just glad you did not get injured yourself in all this.
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Thewhaleshark, there are several types of jail. The prison where real criminals go to isn't the same as the place where folks for just a few months go to because they were repeatingly speeding or something.

Zund, are you saying that you would have shot them both? You never really mentioned what you would have done, but I think shooting them in a situation like that isn't self defence making it attempted murder.

Again, Almost won't be in any problems. Looks like the cop that did the questioning just used a tactic from the 80's to get his information. These days it's all about contact and giving some to getting some, cops over here know just about every owner of disco's and cafe's in town and even surroundings. Anyway getting off topic, bottom line you did everything perfectly and you won't be getting much more problems than this (or you must be VERY unlucky but I highly doubt that).