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I have seen my next rifle...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Zundfolge, Jul 10, 2004.

  1. ThunderChunky

    ThunderChunky L337 Cube H@X0®

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    ha-HA!

    I'm so glad you were my first, yurch... :p
     
  2. Spier

    Spier 1

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    According to the same report I quoted* earlier then the engagement ranges in Iraq were typically down to 30 meters. That is well within the range a M855 will fragment with most barrel configurations. IIRC, a 10,5" barrel should be able to make a 5.56 fragment out to 50 meters, and a 20" should achieve the same up to 200 meters, which is more than enough for most engagements by far. Again, IIRC, the report said that the M16A4 with ACOG was more than sufficient as a designated marksman rifle as well.

    *I took that quote from a notes file, but I'm pretty damn sure the full report can be found here:
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oif-lessons-learned.htm
     
  3. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    Head or chest shots eh? Ask those Marines how many of them would be willing to swap their 5.56 rifles for 7.62

    Ask the Rangers in Somolia who where side by side with a couple Delta Operators, the Rangers with their M4s and the Delta guys with their M14s ... the Rangers where shooting tons of "skinny's" who just kept running ... the Delta guys where getting one shot drops with their .308s


    Your pictures are less impressive when they are both the same scale.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  4. Thrash123

    Thrash123 Obey Leash Laws

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    Wow.. I have missed seeing debates like these. I'm certainly not a shooter by any means, but it's still interesting to watch.

    Continue, please :)
     
  5. Spier

    Spier 1

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    Funny you should mention it: http://www.sftt.org/PDF/article05122003a.pdf
    Search for ACOG until you come to the SAM bit.(they didnt' see the need for a 7.62 rifle for the squad designated marksman role; the M16A4 was more than satisfactionary)
    Hehe, I found a site a while back that's perfect for making the bull**** "OMG, m14, BHD!!1" argument look rather..weak:
    http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/bhdweaponreferences.msnw
    Random quotes:
    Personally I would definitely rather carry a 5.56 carbine or similar instead of the beast that is the G3. Especially since I'm hearing rumours about a 60 mile manouver in a few weeks time..
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2004
  6. SaraP

    SaraP New Member

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    You forgot lighter recoil, which is the raison d'etre of the 5.56mm round -- a full-auto 7.62x51mm battle rifle simply isn't practical, or at least wasn't back in the days of the M14. With the improved recoil reduction technology, though, such a beast might be possible in the near future.
     
  7. SaraP

    SaraP New Member

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    The super-lethal 5.56mm only occurs when you use an early-model Armalite AR-15 with a 1:14 twist barrel -- the round's understabilized, so it tends to tumble on impact with devastating results. Later AR-15s (and M16s and M-16A1s) used a faster 1:12 twist which stabilizes the round correctly and improves accuracy greatly but sacrifices the tumble effect. Modern M-16A2s, M-16A3s and M-16A4s use an even faster 1:9 twist designed to stabilize the semi-armor-piercing M885 round, which offers superior penetration and range compared to the older ball rounds but has inferior terminal effects.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2004
  8. OICW

    OICW Reason & Logic > Religion

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  9. JonnyBoy

    JonnyBoy alive

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    I think we need to discuss whats actually important here


    when. will. we. see. this. in. infiltration?
     
  10. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    Ah yes ... good point ... I missed that one.



    Military usage and lethality issues aside, I still fail to see how the creation of the SOCOM 16 proves that Americans are dumb.

    For my uses (target shooting at under 300 yds, plinking and maybe the occasional hunting) the SOCOM 16 is about perfect.
     
  11. Spier

    Spier 1

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    If you didn't understand that I was kidding, then you might have bigger problems than previously thought. :D In a later post I even added that it's probably a fun gun to bring to the range. The point is that for all practical purposes; it's kinda redundant.

    SaraP, no. Just no.
     
  12. jaunty

    jaunty If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

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    Hey. Everybody step the fuck back and just wait a god damn minute here.

    M14s with M68 CCO's are fucking cool. Short barrels on big ass battle rifles are not cool. Stalemate. This discussion is over.

    Edit: 7.62x39mm > 7.62x51mm > 5.56x45mm. If you need me to explain why, you probably don't deserve the oxygen passing through your lungs right now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2004
  13. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    No no, it's all wrong. Jaunty does not end discussians, he starts them.
     
  14. jaunty

    jaunty If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

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    I am the alpha and the omega.
     
  15. Profe

    Profe Posts: 918,731

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    I don't deserve the oxygen passing through my lungs :(
     

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