How to make Inf players teamwork...

[R-Force]

"Hip shooting is nothing more than panic fire. But in INF it has become a method of attack! Not to mention, it just makes scoped weapons all that more convenient. They can use a weapon for sniping, and for cqb.

One rule of gaming is to not put useless feature in a game. If they make hip shooting more useless than it is (i'm sure even you could fire from hip and hit something under 20 meters) then they should just disable it completly (or unable you from firing). But i've read a few places, and heard from a friend in the Canadian army that hip shooting is used : when charging (you suppress your opponement until you can stop and make some accurate shots) and when the enemy is so close that accuracy don't matter (well you can call it panic fire, but it remain deadly and effective at close range). Would you feel it to be realistic if you could not line a single good shot on someone right next to you from the hip? Personnaly i would find it REALLY lame as i'm a crack shot from the hip in RL.

 

[St0rmcaller]

Normally, when I do solo tactics, I wind up anywhere from the bottom score to somewhere in the middle. However I did a little experiment just now finished...

Running and gunning with SIG551 with ACOG. (Never used it though, just fired from the hip.
I wound up with top score at 67 on Millenium Dockside. Sixty-seven! That is ridiculously high for me.

Same map, different server, M16 with ACOG. Same score, 67, highest on map. And as I said on the server, you know something is wrong when I have such an insane score. Other players agreed (because they know my usual score).

Perhaps you are right about firing from the hip, meaning we don't want it to be useless. However, the accuracy needs to be reduced some. 67 is too much for me to handle.

I'll also admit freely I have no idea about Canadian Army training. But I do know that the US Marines see it as wasted ammo. One shot, one kill, I have been tought to tell my shooters every time on the range. And if I ever saw anyone firing from the hip (which I haven't) he would have some harsh words from me later.

That's just the way it is in RL for us.

 

[R-Force]

My friend gave me one exemple when shooting from hip was mendatory :

When a group of soldier walk in a road for a long time, you don't expect every soldier to keep their gun raised. You usually have guys to look for the sides ready to fire if anyone atempt to ambush. If an ambush do occur and you have no cover, and the enemy is almost on you, would you bother raising your gun? You merly shoot and shoot until they are all dead or you are.

I see another occasion :

The other occasion is when you run from one cover to the other. If the enemy is likely to fire on you and you have to fire in a pinch, probaly while still moving, you can fire from hip (you don't expect much scored hit but it will make them duck for cover if done fast enough). Raising gun and taking aim would probably get you killed.

Taking aim is a luxury you have when no one is shooting at you or you have some cover. I know the US army teach to conserve ammos and such, but you don't expect to always be able to...

 

[St0rmcaller]

"When a group of soldier walk in a road for a long time, you don't expect every soldier to keep their gun raised. You usually have guys to look for the sides ready to fire if anyone atempt to ambush. If an ambush do occur and you have no cover, and the enemy is almost on you, would you bother raising your gun? You merly shoot and shoot until they are all dead or you are. "

There are actually three different poses based on the tactical situation.

Ready: Buttstock in the shoulder, rifle raised, eyes looking down barrel of weapon. Every where you look your rifle follows your eyes. This for when enemy contact is imminent.

Alert: Buttstock in the shoulder, barrel is towrd the ground at 45 degree angle. This when enemy contact is likely. (This is how I moved my fireteam in Kosovo. It can be maintained for a long time when needed.)

Tactical: This is the hip carry. It is done when enemy contact is possible. When under fire, your first priority is to take cover, and then return fire.

I say again, I'm aware that the Marine Corps is not the Canadian Army, but it is what I know.

 

[R-Force]

Your right, each army is different, they all have their own way of doing things and they all have things they don't want you to do. What is not accepted in one army might be a standard procedure in another... Well, things also changes over time, what they teach right now is quite different than what they used to teach before, and it's likely to change again in the future.

I can't talk for the Canadian army either, i'm not part of it, i'm just reporting what my friend told me when i asked about the hip shooting...

 

[karsh]

man you guys are insane... smiles
this post has emailed me threetimes in the last hour or so...
once even when i was reading the thread again...

fact as i see it - hip shooting is fairly inacurate already and changing it to the worse will mean its total dis-use aftwards. yes hip shooting is used alot for reaction and panic shooting, but running with a full scope is just plain wrong to me.
Running with an aimed small weapon eg a pistol could still be possable but unlikely, and running with a MP5 with its veiw finder is useful in game yes I do it myself when I use the weapon, but its still a bad thing for the game.

stoping just thing runing with aimed weapon would slow people down, and only the skilled marksman would beable to run with acurate shooting. I find it hard to run and fire already with the movement of the gun, but add being forced to shoot from the hip, now that would force people to only use running to get to places and set up aimed shots.

ok make that another time its been updated, I just got another email about this post, dont get me wrong I love the suggestions in here and wouldnt want to stop my update-email, this is manly because I aggree that somthing must be dont to stop rambo's and give people more team playing environments....

and one more thing to add before I have to send this and read what has been posted while typeing... please dont slow down the game, the main reason why I started playing Inf is because of the speed of movement. I dont want to walk around board out of my mind to get shot and have to wait and do it again. the speed it right, maybe addjusting the stamina for the running, or lessen running speed but have another called sprint, that drasticly drops your stamina but it gets you from cover to cover fast. and this would deffenalty have a forced hipshooting and possable even with less actuacy. this scenario is the only time I would vote for less actuacy for hip shooting.

 

[yurch]

i don't really think we have to change the running speed. If the fighting itself was longer (i posted this at the top of the page, have fun reading THAT), it would be enough to balance things out against "rambo"
Longer fighting = more action = more fun as well.

 

[karsh]

hmm the only way I can see combat lasting longer is the intoduction of body armor...
I know I will need some, but hitting an unarmored part or the body will be hard for me...

 

[R-Force]

I hope they won't implement body armor the same way they did in Firearms. Their body armor are too effective and have so little drawbacks...

 

[yurch]

i dont think they CAN implement body armor with the hit-detection system they have now. If they try to, well...
If they try to use the original ut-body armor method, you can stop playing right now. That armor protected from headshots and fall damage.

edit:
the whole thing about firefights lasting longer was meant in terms of sighting enemies. read the large posts above.
I did not mean living longer/more shots to bring someone down.

 

[Puncher]

Firing from the hip

The viewpoint of firing from the hip from another Army (the German Bundeswehr):

When marching/patrolling and getting ambushed, you are taught to give off a "Deutschuss" (approximate shot) by gripping the weapon in the front with your left hand (for a ight hand shooter) just behind the front sight, switching to F (automatic) and letting loose a few rounds in the direction of the enemy while getting your ass down.

When storming an enemy position, you get close and then all run as fast as possible, gripping the weapon as above and firing single shots in the direction of the enemy to keep them suppressed and get close enough to fight them down in CQB.

Those are the only cases I can think of where we would fire from the hip.

 

[karsh]

hit location armour could work very well... you could still do head shots, but only where the armour isnt.. and you could still shoot legs etc... and armour wears down anyway and different weapons an ammo have different armour penetration stat's

my girly Saranus just said that giveing amour to newbies would help them heaps... what about forcing nworld stats... (the place that you can record your records) to log everything and new people to their can get body armour for a few days in this game...
problems with this is forcing everyone to join with them, and setting it all up to reccogenise newbies on all servers.....
and of course the people that will keep makeing new users just to get the armour allways