How much without errors?

[Doc_EDo]

How big can you make a map till you get errors, like HOM that comes first and later on BSP?
I've seen many big mapps and almost all have some HOM somewhere.
When I make mine I intersect, deintersect and so on, but there always seams t be a point where the errors start to appear?
Does anyone know when?
Number of nodes or polys?
When?

 

[Chrysaor]

I'm not sure there's a certain point. I guess there's a difference between maps like Oblivion and maps like Shadar, as far as error numerance...

 

[Laff]

you've gotta use isolation, and know where and when to use semi/non solids...you have to be PERFECT...intersecting/deintersecting doesn't do anything but combine your brushes into (hopefully) something more simple, that the engine can use better.

 

[Hourences]

its deadsimple, if the folowing would be true, 1 poly a 500 polys = hom, then that means that if you have a map with 4000 polys you have 8 homs, now if you have a big map with 20.000 polys, you have 40 homs, its simple the bigger it is, the more probs you will have just cause its bigger

the numbers above are just made up, as an example, the amount of brushes or size doesnt affect the chanches on homs and ****, its other stuff that does that

and dont intersect or de-inter...

 

[LXIXGTO]

Originally posted by Hourences
and dont intersect or de-inter...

.
.
What do you mean by don't intersect / deintersect?
.
I am always looking for tips and tricks to make things simpler and
more reliable.
.
Could you please be more specific?

 

[Chrysaor]

He's saying don't do it. Period. I think vertex editing is recommended instead.

 

[LXIXGTO]

Originally posted by Chrysaor
He's saying don't do it. Period. I think vertex editing is recommended instead.

.
.
They make some jobs much, much easier.
And, there are some cases where intersecting/deintersecting
is the only option available.

 

[StoneViper]

the bigger that individual zone it, the more HOMs will be present. but the more zones you have, the smaller they must be to have no HOMs. and there is a 64 zone limit to the unreal engine.

this is what i've experienced.

[edit]take into account that simple brushes cause less computing by the engine and "snapped right" to that grid eliminates invalid floating point computations. Keep it simple and snap the brushes to the largest grid setting practical, and you should never really have to really worry much about HOMs.[/edit]

 

[Bot_40]

I haven't used intersect/deintersec at all in the last 5-6 months. And have never found the need to. Every time I used to use it, I just used to get errors in that area unless it's very simple geometry. It's more trouble than it's worth really.
You can do almost anything with cube, vertex editing and brush clipping.
The only time I HAVE to use intersection is with movers

 

[Doc_EDo]

500

I just checked som of my mapps. My errors start to appear when I have arround 500 brushes.
While i'm making a map and have, let's say, 400 brushes, everything is normal. NO errors anywhere. Perfect.
But, when I make another room and get close to those 500, errors start to appear in those room that never had any errors!!!
That's why i'm sure that there is a connection between the number of the brushes and errors.
And I know enough not to substract through non- and semi-solids or portals, to align all brushes correctly, and to isolate nodes.

 

[Bot_40]

Erm, the map I'm working on is 460 brushes (including 2 8192x8192 terrain brushes and 4 1042x1024 terrain brushes). Current total rebuild times stand at 20 mins.
It has a grand total of 1 collision error which you can't even find without turning on 'Fly'. There's no 'limit' to how many brushes your level has before you get errors, it's just how 'clean' your bsp is.
And projectX2 has 1192 brushes. I've yet to find an error in it yet

Anyway, here's a not-so-nice development shot for no particular reason

 

[Seco_In_The_Bushes]

That is some nice terrain.

 

[Hourences]

such a small pic ... cant see anything

 

[Bot_40]

bah @ 600x800 size limit. Can't be bothered to post a bigger pic, you get the idea that lots of brushes/polys is not necessarily = errors.

 

[Doc_EDo]

Does messing with Build Options help?
I never found that to be true, so I always map with default options.

 

[Bot_40]

I read somewhere (I think it might have been on some Epic tutorial or something) that the slider which has the IgnorePortals at one end can be used to fix rare portal areas. IE a portal that is not zoneing off an area correctly even though it is 'water tight'

 

[StoneViper]

the slider makes more or less polys by cutting more or creating more. if you don't know what you are doing, stay away from this slider. It has been known to destroy whole maps. Fix the problem a different way. i always leave thing alone

 

[StoneViper]

bot_40 when is that map going to be done.

 

[Bot_40]

Errrm, when it's done. I'm making super slow progress. If enough people bug me, I might actually load the editor this month

Actually, I'm going to work on it now. YOU HEAR THAT CLAW? COPE? ERDRIK? I'M MAPPING

 

[bobtheking]

Bot_40, you suck!!!!!!!! you have such good mapping talents for terrain, and don't use them but once a month??? i can't make terrain, and i struggle day after day to make good terrain!! use your gift!!!!!