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Hearing loss

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by gal-z, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. gal-z

    gal-z New Member

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    Obviously, we can't make shot/explosive sounds as loud as they are IRL :p
    I think a way to make up for that would be to make it so while you're hearing a loud noise, all other noises (walking, distant shots/explosions) will be significantly reduced in volume.
    Also if u hear a loud enough explosion (shooting your own weapon is enough, I had my ears ringing for like 2 hours after shooting 7 rounds) should cause your ears to ring and give significant hearing loss for a few seconds and proportional hearing loss for the rest of the round, kinda like AA:O does, only better :p
    What do u guys think?
     
  2. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    I'd add, when a stupid teammate (aka geogob) spams the minimi right by your head (à la BHD).
     
  3. Derelan

    Derelan Tracer Bullet

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    Soldat has this, its really annoying. The significance of it in real soldier life might be there, essentially because you aren't fighting as a soldier all your life. However, in INF, you would be going deaf nearly every time you play.
     
  4. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    I do like the idea of lowering the volume of all other sounds to simulate insanely loud sounds without annoying the piss out of the neighbours of the people playing. But for all the rest; just plain no.
     
  5. Lasersailor184

    Lasersailor184 The_Punisher

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    I'd say reserve it for when a grenade goes off nearby.
     
  6. gal-z

    gal-z New Member

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    It would be annoying, but IRL it's really anoying as well, as well as making it harder to hear other sounds.
    Of course simulating loud sounds by making everything else less loud is a must, the rest is harder to make and is a deeper step into realism.
    As for being deaf all the time, it isn't true. To be truely deaf it takes a very very loud explosion very close to you. A grenade that explodes close enough to make you deaf will usually kill you as well. So total deafness doesn't happen often.
     
  7. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    The situation shown in the BlackHawkDown movie can happen, sure, and even earprotectors would not really help if someone fires such a weapon right next to your ear. However total temporary deafness like the soldier had in this movie based on the situation he was in, is not what would happen. He would only be temporarily deaf on the right side, the side where the weapon was placed. The left ear would hear that ringing sound maybe but this would get better pretty fast. Well at least it would still allow him to hear something.
    If you engage combat as a soldier, then you normally have these little ear protectors sticked into your ear. Well, I had them in all the time while using 'real' ammo.
    My cousin lost one of his ear protectors while firing some burst shots on a shooting range and was almost deaf on the right ear for a couple of days.

    Well, maybe some guys that do serve or served in the military can tell us if they wear those little ear protectors in combat situations or not.

    To the in-game sounds. If two sounds are played at the same time... one being the more or less silent footsteps and the other being a loud firing sound then you would hear only the firing and the footsteps would not be hearable at all. So there is no need to lower any volume of surround sounds while firing.
     
  8. zeep

    zeep :(

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    The human ear has dynamic compression. Loud sounds, loud areas and even anticipation of a loud sound cause the ear to 'tighten' so less sound comes through.

    i.e. If you enter a club where the music is very loud and you just came form home, then your ears will hurt for a while. If you were in the club since it opened then your ears have already adjusted to the rising volume and they don't hurt.

    Ofcourse this is only to an extend, unexpected loud sounds near the ear cause ringing and pain. ( and may very well kill off a few hearing frequencies permantently )

    On to UT99 's sound handling. Muting other sounds when someone is firing near you has almost no use imo. The 16 effective channels that UT uses, i've yet to count 32 sounds at the same time no matter what my channel setting is, cut out sounds all the time. If my teammate is spraying minimi then i can pretty much count out hearing anything other than that.

    Everything about UT99 sound is so very very bad. You can't hear but a few feet away and sound slopes are bad too (sounds just cut out after a distance, not fading out nicely). Inf can't help this btw.

    /rant
     
  9. Lt.

    Lt. Elitist bastard

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    good points, and although UT99 cant help this... thats why it's in "new version suggestions". ;)

    I think that loud sounds and muting/dampening would be a nice addition to the next INF, and a future engine should be able handle it.

    I would like to see:
    volume adjustment
    tinnitus ("that ringing sound")
    independent 'ears'

    with only those 3 things you could probably model some pretty convincing sound setups, (ex: left speakers dead, right speakers muted with a quiet tinnitus ).


    I would also like to see:
    earplugs
    "ears"

    that way I could take a suppressed FAMAS with an ACOG, no ear protection at all (sneak about in the bushes with perfect hearing) or I could loadup with level IIIa, earplugs AND "ears", and an unsuppressed M4, (having very dulled hearing, but protected.)

    plus an assaulter with "ears" on would look pretty cool ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    ehh..... infantry men without helmets are rare nowadays... and I never saw one wearing 'ears' like the ones shown on the pic in the field, tho...

    and I have to say it again that muted sounds aren't needed at all... in real life one sound doesn't mute or change its volume just cause another sound occurs nearby. Sure, the sound waves overlap and this causes one sound to maybe mute out for YOU but the sound is still there with its original volume. So if these sounds are played in a game, then they will have the same result in your ear as if they were played in RL. Sure, the sound engine limits the stuff to a bit, but you would never need to 'adjust' some sounds cause another one is played at the same time. It all happens automatically... no volume adjustments needed.

    Adjusting sounds due to simulating ear damage or wearing ear protectors is a totally different story and would be a nice feature of course.
     
  11. gal-z

    gal-z New Member

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    I've never seen a unit in the IDF that uses earplugs in combat.
    As for changing other sounds' volume when shots are fired, I think it is needed. If the gunshot sound is higher than the maximum volume your speaker would play and you lower its volume because of that, you have to lower all sound volume, at least while that sound is played, or there will be a better chance to hear footsteps while firing than you would IRL.
    Of course hearing loss is a different issue and would also be cool to have in the game.
     
  12. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    Yes and no. It is true that the physical wave is the pure addition of the two sound wave (supposing there is no interference). But the way the ear react to the sound wave is not linear. When the ear picks up a 160 dB sound wave, it won't be able to distinguish the 50 dB sound wave because of the ear's dynamic range. In reality the 50 dB sound is not 'mutated' but we don't percieve it at all...

    Simulating the dynamic range of the ear can be done by two way in a simulator like INF. Either you can put the volume of your speakers so loud that you'll get the 160 dB for the firing sound and make sure the relative levels of the sounds are right (e.g. the trigger click should be at least 140 dB under the firing sound... that is not the case now). Or you can normalise (relatively speaking) all sounds (as it is now) and cancel/lower the volume/mute quiet sounds when more intense sounds are percieved by the player.

    The second solution makes much more sens in a world where people don't want to play INF in the 160 dB sound range....
     
  13. ravens_hawk

    ravens_hawk New Member

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    It would be a cool option to play INF at 160dB when no ones home, give your 500W system a workout ;)
    Other than that something simple like the shell shock in Call of Duty, might do what you need. (IE explosives go off right next to you you get no sound then fade in ringing and possible screen shake.)
     
  14. Derelan

    Derelan Tracer Bullet

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    But Call of Duty was a linear game, so they could time it right. INF is not linear, its very different every time you play, thus it would be difficult to find the balance between the deaf sound coming too often (Like in Soldat) or the deaf sound too seldom (which would make all that coding quite useless).
     
  15. gal-z

    gal-z New Member

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    1 shot that you fire is enough to cause your ears to start ringing.
     

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