Headshot Hitbox?

[Kantham]

It should be so small that there is none

Larger than UT99? That's pretty much THE WHOLE MODEL.

Lmao, indeed.

 

[-AEnubis-]

No, mathematically, the headshots will be 10x more random then trying to land any shots because the target is a thenth the size.

IMO it just so happens that the difference is enough that one feels random enough that I won't try for them, and the other is doable enough that I still play the game.

 

[nuttella]

If Epic is bringing back the crouching-to-avoid-headshot move, then I think the headshot hitbox needs to be bigger, like the original Unreal Tournament. If not, then keep it the same size. I'm voting on the premise that Epic would bring back the crouching move. Because having a use for crouching is cool.

Besides, how am I supposed to cut off your head with a ripper when your skull is so tiny?

Crouching was only partially implemented in UT99. The headshot thing was an oversight not a feature. It's far more useful in 2k4, because it actually works (i.e., you can crouch under things.) It's still harder to get a headshot on someone who's crouched, because they are smaller than they look, which is another thing that should be done better.

My understanding of the UT99 crouched headshot thing was that you can still get one, but you have to fire at where the head would be if the person was standing. Crouching did not reduce your collision height.

 

[gregori]

Headshot regions in Ut2kx are f8cking crazy, its hard to interpret visually what will be a headshot, especially with all the different models.

Instead of having a bigger or smaller headshot region, hitting the actual physical head, should be the only thing that gives a headshot, possibly using per pixel hit detection for player models.

 

[T2A`]

It's still harder to get a headshot on someone who's crouched, because they are smaller than they look, which is another thing that should be done better.

Indeed. I play bot matches with the inhuman 'tards on Campgrounds-VE2 all the time to warm up and test settings changes, and I quite often shoot through them completely when they crouch because the hitbox gets cut in half while the player model might only be crouching at 2/3rds its normal height.

Per-pixel collision is unfair, which is the only reason Epic hasn't done it yet. It works well for a single player environment, but in multiplayer it will only lead to everyone using the models that are hardest to hit and/or have the smallest/least visible head.

UT2004's method is fine, in theory, it just needs a little... refinement.

 

[Bullet10k]

I only force model in 1v1, but for TDM and TAM I don't. Sometimes, I'll FULLY CLEARLY hit the head (like in between the eyes), and it doesn't register as a headshot (but as a normal shot), I find that lame, and everytime that happens, I just think to myself "It's 2k4's uber tiny hs hitbox", and keep fighting. Maybe it's the netcode, but then again when I have like 24 ping it still occurs, so that's why I said bigger than 2k4's. That explains what I meant by the "random" effect.

 

[T2A`]

There's really too many factors in play to blame it on just one thing, I think. It could have been a dud hitscan shot if you're on newnet. Those are caused when the position of the other player you see on your machine is off from that of the server's position of him due to the normal netcode's clientside interpolation. With newnet you shoot first and ask the server questions later, whereas with regular net it doesn't work like that, so it's possible what looks like it should have been a hit/headshot was actually something else on the server. It could also be due to the delay between when you click and when your machine renders the shot. This is a short delay, all things considered, but it could make the shot look like it drew one way when the server registered it in another. I dunno.

 

[Kyllian]

Pre-Month Bump

I don't care how they handle headshots in 2k7, as long as the entire head can still be hit when crouching.

Was dinking around in a test map earlier and I noticed shots going thru the bots head when it was crouched.
Called up collision to be shown, and half of the head was outside the collision box, making the chances of a headshot hitting about 50%

 

[truegamer]

I don't care how they handle headshots in 2k7, as long as the entire head can still be hit when crouching.

Was dinking around in a test map earlier and I noticed shots going thru the bots head when it was crouched.
Called up collision to be shown, and half of the head was outside the collision box, making the chances of a headshot hitting about 50%

You know, I always noticed that headshots on crouchers were easier to nail, but I never pursued it or decided to find out why they were so effective... good find

It adds a whole balance to it... campers become more exposed when crouching for accuracy, which in turn makes them better targets.

 

[gregori]

You know, I always noticed that headshots on crouchers were easier to nail, but I never pursued it or decided to find out why they were so effective... good find

It adds a whole balance to it... campers become more exposed when crouching for accuracy, which in turn makes them better targets.

doesn't balance anything, crouching doesn't give you more acurracy in UT2k4, just makes you slower to move and an easy target............because movement/crouching doesn't effect the accuracy of UT weapons, any descent sniper fights on the move in anyway


One thing I do notice in UT2k4 is headshots going straight through the models head registering as normal hits, even on singleplayer, not just laggy multiplayer!

This makes it far easier to go for a normal hit with lightining gun than a head shot, because you never know if it will be detected properly which is pointless since it the sniper weapon, and should be for headshots mostly!

 

[nuttella]

You know, I always noticed that headshots on crouchers were easier to nail, but I never pursued it or decided to find out why they were so effective... good find.

You missed his point. He's saying you only have half of the area to hit. I don't know if that's right, but I don't know where you get that headshots are easier to hit on crouchers. I've never found that to be true.

 

[-{SC}- Renamon]

I say make it like UT99 or larger!

Why? Because my dad used to play ut99, especially on CTF-face and all I know is that when he plays all you can hear is 'headshot! headshot! double kill! headshot! multi kill!' .etc.
I'm sure maybe a small percantage of you remember the headshot master, then again maybe not.

But I'll be happy to hear mass headshot spammage again.

 

[Kyllian]

Nuttella's right, I meant that it appears to be harder to snipe a crouching player since half of the model's head is above the hitbox.

The first time I noticed it while testing that map of mine was one of the Necris models.
So I layed out some LGs for it to snag so it would crouch and try to snipe me.
I entered Rend Collision in the console and lo and behold, half of his head was above the rendered hitbox, and I focused my shots on that part of the head.
Not a single shot registered as a hit

 

[DrDoomed]

u should get a headshot when u hit somebody in the head not above their forhead. ANything chin , nose , between the eyes , i've seen shots hit them directly in the face and get nothing.

Hitbox should be polygon by polygon based on the models head

 

[truegamer]

You missed his point. He's saying you only have half of the area to hit. I don't know if that's right, but I don't know where you get that headshots are easier to hit on crouchers. I've never found that to be true.

... yea, I totally missed the point. I was thinking the hitbox was protruding from the model, not the opposite.

 

[gregori]

u should get a headshot when u hit somebody in the head not above their forhead. ANything chin , nose , between the eyes , i've seen shots hit them directly in the face and get nothing.

Hitbox should be polygon by polygon based on the models head

Absolutely, hitting the head should equals HEADSHOT, not some esoteric zone were the head may or may not be. Now that most of the characters seem roughly human, similar shaped, similar heads, I don't think per pixel, or per polygon collision are too problematic.

 

[JaFO]

...

Per-pixel collision is unfair, which is the only reason Epic hasn't done it yet. It works well for a single player environment, but in multiplayer it will only lead to everyone using the models that are hardest to hit and/or have the smallest/least visible head.....

And that's different from the current situation as in how ?

AFAIK people will use 'small' models because most people can't aim at something that isn't really visible (ie : the collision-box that's larger than the actual head).

In fact one could say that the only reason to force 'Gorge' is because that makes the hitmodel as close to the playermodel as can be.

IMHO a true per pixel/polygon hit-model would make the game easier and more fair as it would be true WYSIWYG.

Never mind that everyone can pick the same model and thus achieve equal chance-to-hit for everyone. But that's unlikely to happen, because we don't want a fair game ... we just want to score frags with as little danger to ourselves as possible.