Have people read this article on piracy?

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Peregrine

Death from above
Jan 16, 2001
2,507
0
0
Lake Erie Shoreline
www.gaihope.net
totally disagree... in this throwaway society we live in, very few ppl (adults w/jobs) own any electronic gadget including computers thats more than a year or so old. (or if they do, they wont admit it).

You have GOT to be kidding me. My computer is 2 years old and only one of my friends have anything newer. I am an IT Manager so people CONSTANTLY ask me about thier PC's. I would say the average age of the average computer in the average american househould is 3 years. In just the last week I've had 2 people ask me if it is time for a new PC. One is 5 years old. The other is 3 years old.

Crotale said:
Most computer owners upgrade every three to four years simply out of necessity to have sustainable equipment and keep up with all the new software, regardless of whether that software consists of games or office utilities, multimedia, etc.

Again... you have GOT to be kidding me. My 6 year old Dell laptop runs WinXP and Office 2003 FLAWLESSLY. I have exactly ZERO need to upgrade that thing still today... except the battery sucks.

DP said:
At least now if I need to upgrade, most of my stuff could transfer over to a new system, as opposed to my soundcard and hard drives (and some peripheral stuff like mouse, keyboard, etc.) which are all that I was able to use in my new system compared to the old one.

Again... you're joking, right? When you need to upgrade in 3 years there will be a whole new architecture and none of your current stuff will work in your new box.

________________

It's not even the money. Between my wife and I, we do very well. It's just the point. I can build a new PC every 3 years for $1,000 or buy a new console every 3 years for $399. Is it any wonder Consoles are getting bigger every year?
 
Last edited:

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
0
... When is the last time your heard a cell phone manufacturer discussing anti-theft measures installed on a phone?
...And, the pricing of cell phones is not related in any way shape or form by phone theft.
Instead they force you to buy your phone from a single supplier (like Apple's iPhone). That's why they don't need 'extra' protection as the consumer has already accepted that they're stuck with whatever contract. That is their 'copy-protection'/'anti-piracy'-feature.

In the end, it is left up to each individual developer to protect his software creation in the best manner he sees fit to use. It's really that simple. Stardock lucked out ..
Read the article again.
They didn't just 'luck out'.
They chose to build a product for a market that was willing to pay for their product.
They did not build a product for a market that was unwilling to pay (or that could copy before they got their money, hence 'not targeting the Chinese market').
*that* is why they don't need DRM
They also chose to make sure they invested only as much money as they were sure they could earn.

That's why they don't sell fps-games, because that market is over-crowded and the maximum price for such games is 0$

Trying to sell in such a market is like selling sand to nomads by adding a law that forbids them from taking the sand for free.

Even Epic said as such that "the market that knows/is willing to buy a 300$ upgrade also knows how to use torrents ..."
ie : they are trying to sell wares to people that can get that stuff for free.
You simply can not compete with 'free' stuff, unless you treat your customers as criminals.
 
Last edited:

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
You have GOT to be kidding me. My computer is 2 years old and only one of my friends have anything newer. I am an IT Manager so people CONSTANTLY ask me about thier PC's. I would say the average age of the average computer in the average american househould is 3 years. In just the last week I've had 2 people ask me if it is time for a new PC. One is 5 years old. The other is 3 years old.



Again... you have GOT to be kidding me. My 6 year old Dell laptop runs WinXP and Office 2003 FLAWLESSLY. I have exactly ZERO need to upgrade that thing still today... except the battery sucks.



Again... you're joking, right? When you need to upgrade in 3 years there will be a whole new architecture and none of your current stuff will work in your new box.

________________

It's not even the money. Between my wife and I, we do very well. It's just the point. I can build a new PC every 3 years for $1,000 or buy a new console every 3 years for $399. Is it any wonder Consoles are getting bigger every year?
It's definitely true that the desktop PC is probably the most antiquated piece of electronics that the average American owns.

Still, I think most people overexaggerate the amount of money required to get a computer working for new hardware. They typically don't want to spend the time, and I'm more talking about people who WOULD upgrade. I built my current PC for $600 and, at the time I bought it, it played anything modern. Now it's been almost two years since I upgraded, if I dropped $600 on upgrading my current machine, I'd get even closer to cutting edge than I already am.

The other problem is that if your PC doesn't make games LOOK and RUN better than a comparable console game, then the investment is not worth it. What I see more often than not in these situations is that:

Console: 640x480@60hz (?) high settings - $500
PC: 1024x768@120hz high settings $500

someone who is looking at each of those will pick the console. What that is telling me is that gaming is moving to the couch and away from the office chair in general.
 

[DUF]-Fragger

New Member
Jul 9, 2002
116
0
0
52
The Netherlands
Console: 640x480@60hz (?) high settings - $500
PC: 1024x768@120hz high settings $500

someone who is looking at each of those will pick the console. What that is telling me is that gaming is moving to the couch and away from the office chair in general.

I agree with the whole post of you. I've bought a new computer but this is absolutely the last new computer for playing games. I see myself in a couple of years on the couch with a PS3 instead of sitting behind a gaming rig.
I'm not gonna spend a lot of money anymore just to play games, sometimes i really regret that i've bought a expensive computer instead of a console.

Gr Fragger
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
To be fair, the difference in cost of games and such usually makes up the difference in the long run, but most people don't have money to "save for the long run".
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
That's a very rare case, though. Most PC games retail for $49.99 or less. Typical PS3 and 360 games retail for $59.99 or less.
 

[DUF]-Fragger

New Member
Jul 9, 2002
116
0
0
52
The Netherlands
But:

With consoles you dont need a new vid card, or memory etc, so i think in the end your better of with a console. (think about it no BSOD's w00t)
Not gonna say that consoles are better but, its just when i look at the prices then its better to buy a PS3 or something.

The only thing i wonder is wich buttons do PS3 players use on their gamepads to play a FPS game, thats the only darkside for me when you look at consoles. I tried UT on the PS2 last night and its unplayable for me with a gamepad. Thats why i only play Crash Bandicoot, Ridge Race and Grand Turismo.

Gr Fragger
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
But:

With consoles you dont need a new vid card, or memory etc, so i think in the end your better of with a console. (think about it no BSOD's w00t)
Not gonna say that consoles are better but, its just when i look at the prices then its better to buy a PS3 or something.

The only thing i wonder is wich buttons do PS3 players use on their gamepads to play a FPS game, thats the only darkside for me when you look at consoles. I tried UT on the PS2 last night and its unplayable for me with a gamepad. Thats why i only play Crash Bandicoot, Ridge Race and Grand Turismo.

Gr Fragger
I still think if you looked at every angle (including that you don't really need to upgrade a PC for 3 years or so) you would find they cost about the same in the long run.
 

haslo

Moar Pie!
Jan 21, 2008
363
0
0
Bern CH
www.haslo.ch
ClanBase cheap gaming PC post - I'll just go ahead and spam this link in every thread on every forum where anybody says "but consoles are cheaper" :) That rig pwns every console on the market right now, for less than $500. Admittedly, without monitor. But if I'd have bought a console before I moved together with my fiancée, I'd have had to buy a TV as well, so that argument doesn't count.
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
12
38
Anywhere But Here
ClanBase cheap gaming PC post - I'll just go ahead and spam this link in every thread on every forum where anybody says "but consoles are cheaper" :) That rig pwns every console on the market right now, for less than $500. Admittedly, without monitor. But if I'd have bought a console before I moved together with my fiancée, I'd have had to buy a TV as well, so that argument doesn't count.
I call bullsh1t and nothing you say can change that. The author of that post forgot software. You simply cannot compare apples to oranges. Sure, they are both fruit, but that is all they have in common. A PC requires an operating system which most use Windows. Even if you buy the "builder's" version of Windows from a parts shop, you still will pay at least $130 USD. Then you have your office suite and other apps. Sorry, but no matter how cheap the hardware and no matter how you push the "warez" thingy, PC ownership will always cost more for that average consumer if you are just talking ownership sans games. One more thing that is so lost on many hardcore gamers is the simple fact that not everyone knows where to shop for the best prices, nor do they know enough about computing to know which parts to buy. 'Tis the reason companies like Dell do so well; it's also another reason why so many gamers opt for consoles these days.
 

Peregrine

Death from above
Jan 16, 2001
2,507
0
0
Lake Erie Shoreline
www.gaihope.net
A PC requires an operating system which most use Windows. Even if you buy the "builder's" version of Windows from a parts shop, you still will pay at least $130 USD.

For people that build a PC, they probably already have a copy of Windows.
Hell I have legit copies of XP, Vista Pro, & Vista Pro 64 that I could put on a PC I build.
Office suite? There are at least 4 quality ones out there that are FREE and compatible with MS Office. And don't tell me regular people don't know about it. Every time Java wants to update itself, they are advertising Sun's Office Suite. I have seen that ad six times already.
I do agree with you when it comes to Joe Average Consumer, but not for us.

Sorry, but no matter how cheap the hardware and no matter how you push the "warez" thingy, PC ownership will always cost more for that average consumer if you are just talking ownership sans games.

Not only that but buying a PS3 will also give you a blue ray DVD player which Joe Average consumer wants. Sure, I can use Windows Media Center and do all kinds of cool things.... but Joe Average Consumer doesn't know that.

As I said people always ask for my advice. When I get asked PC buying advice now I just say:

"What do you want it for?"
If they say:
"Internet, Word Processing"?
I reply:
"Look at your Sunday Circular and go buy the cheapest Laptop they have for sale".
(I have had people buy laptops for $499 that do everything they need even a year later... except play high end games)
If you are not playing games you should own a laptop.

If they say:
"Games and homework for (me or) my kid"
Then I explain the need for a higher end desktop.

A good gaming PC from BestBuy or Dell will run Joe Average more then $1,000.
A console with a bunch of accessories is far cheaper.

What choice do you think he is going to make?
 

awaw

I didn't survive the '08 BUF crash
Jan 19, 2008
95
0
0
Then you have your office suite and other apps.

I call bullsh1t and nothing you say can change that. You simply cannot compare apples to oranges. All you need for playing games is the game and windows, everything else is free.
If you want to add office to that comparison, you need to compare a gaming pc with an office installation vs. a console and a working pc with an office installation.
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
12
38
Anywhere But Here
Whatever. All I know is that only a small contingent of PC owners build their systems just for playing games. For that reason alone, it is a comparison fraught so many with inconsistencies to the point that a reasonable comparison cannot be made objectively.
 

[DUF]-Fragger

New Member
Jul 9, 2002
116
0
0
52
The Netherlands
Whatever. All I know is that only a small contingent of PC owners build their systems just for playing games. For that reason alone, it is a comparison fraught so many with inconsistencies to the point that a reasonable comparison cannot be made objectively.

I did that, but like a said in my previous post, i will never ever do it again for that money. I buy a PS3 instead, much cheaper then i have payed now.

Gr Fragger
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
Whatever. All I know is that only a small contingent of PC owners build their systems just for playing games. For that reason alone, it is a comparison fraught so many with inconsistencies to the point that a reasonable comparison cannot be made objectively.
There aren't really any inconsistencies, but there are more variables than you can possibly account for.

The point is, if you already own XP and a monitor, you can build a PC that will run all modern games at the same resolutions and the same framerates that a console would.

Whether that is the right choice for a person or not isn't really the point. The point is that the "cost" argument is a strawman. If you buy a console over a PC I sincerely hope it's because of some other reason than that it was cheaper. If you pay an average of $10 more per game, it's going to offset the cost quite a bit over even a year's time (depending on how many games you buy). And we can't really compare older/used releases, because PC games depreciate too :)
 

[DUF]-Fragger

New Member
Jul 9, 2002
116
0
0
52
The Netherlands
I always will be updating my pc because i just have to. I mean i work on it but i also play games on it so i need a high-end computer. But to buy a pc just to play games only (and nothing else, email etc etc) i wont do that.

I have lots of fun playing online games with friends playing fps games, but if it comes to other games then a PS3 is very nice also to have in the livingroom (where is that? ;) )

So basicly i need 2 of them, a pc and a console :eek:

Gr Fragger
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
12
38
Anywhere But Here
There aren't really any inconsistencies, but there are more variables than you can possibly account for.
Potayto, potahto.

The point is, if you already own XP and a monitor, you can build a PC that will run all modern games at the same resolutions and the same framerates that a console would.
Yes, IF you already own the OS.

Whether that is the right choice for a person or not isn't really the point. The point is that the "cost" argument is a strawman.
Exactly. One could argue that buying a console costs more than a comparably powered PC. Look at the PS3 bundles from last year. Over $1000 USD for a player (with all the internal extras), two controllers, and a couple of games. Oh, but it had the Blue-Ray player built-in.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
0
Potayto, potahto.

Yes, IF you already own the OS.
....
provided you bought a non-OEM license.
If it is an OEM-license then you are not allowed to re-use/transfer the OS to your new pc (and if you did 'transfer' your license then your old pc would be without an OS) ... in fact it is one of the reasons most pc's now come with Windows pre-installed.

Given that a non OEM-version of Windows costs a heck of a lot more than 100$ (I think it's 200-300 $ for the 'Vista Basic Home', XP isn't available anymore although MS does allow downgrade to XP) ... and that shops aren't supposed to sell OEM licenses it is impossible to build a new pc with the OEM-version and as stated ... even if you could (legally) buy OEM Windows-versions then you could not re-use that OS for your next pc.
// ---

Perhaps the total cost of ownership for a pc and console are equal and maybe it is cheaper to own a pc (after buying x games for both systems).

However nothing can account for the fact that consoles are easier to maintain compared to pc's, which is a pretty important factor when it comes to having fun playing the games ...