1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Half-Life 2 / UT2003 engines comparisons.

Discussion in 'Programming' started by nickelplate, Aug 7, 2003.

  1. Payback

    Payback Ive got a big stick

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah. It seems I should have been clearer in my point. I didnt mean a mutator could be used to make cheats (I understand theres hash code checks on the client and server and all sorts going on), nor was my post really related to UnrealScripting.

    I was drawing a parallel between writing a mutator that prevents other mutators working and valve writing a fix for a cheat that they found that then breaks three or four mods, because they were relying on the feature that was removed. This happened to AHL three times in the end, I've no clue how often it happened to other mods but I do know I wasnt alone in this.

    I really should stop whinging about it, but with everyone praising HL2 and saying how wonderful it will be to mod for I felt I should show that its not all sweetness and light.
     
  2. Mychaeel

    Mychaeel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,830
    Likes Received:
    0
    If it's any consolation, I've had my share of compatibility breaks due to new versions of UTPure (Unreal Tournament's definitive cheat protection add-on) myself. ;)

    I'm really glad that isn't an issue anymore in UT2003.
     
  3. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    aren't we all........ ;)
     
  4. SuperDre

    SuperDre New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    0
    yeah and sometimes it's thirdparty protection software that makes your mod/mutator/tool incompatible.. (tactical Ops related) (In my case it was TOST which prevented my SuperTeam Keybinder from working online) And now it's TO-Protect.exe that prevents me from playing Tactical Ops on a lot of server because that buggy software tells me that my files are tempered with, but they are the official files (and a program called md5summer says that my files are the original)...

    I've seen some amazing footage from HL2, but my main question was: what kind of hardware was it running on? and how is the engine performing when it is used online (UT2003 and Karma also has a lot of problems with going online, offline it works great but online it doesn't)..

    But I think that it will take a lot of time before graphically UnrealEngine is up to par with Valve's Source engine..

    (Or does the current UnrealEngine have Bumpmapping?)
     
  5. NuKeR

    NuKeR Majestic 12 - Lead Mapper

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2001
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I didnt read the whole thread, but from what I've read, Sir_Brizz is the one who said it the best. When UT2003 was released (thats like what, one year ago?) the engine was already one year old, so if we can count correctly, the Warfare Engine is now 2 years old (if not more). What we can see now (UT2003/2004) is a 2 years old engine. The newer builds of the engine (available only to licensees) is twice or maybe even 3 times better than what UT2003 uses. By now I'm pretty sure the engine has everything HL2 will have, and maybe more.
     
  6. SuperDre

    SuperDre New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah that may be right, but they should release a game with the latest engine, so we can use that one :lol:

    But I think ut2004 won't be much better as 2003..
    So what game is gonna use the current build of the unreal engine?
     
  7. RegularX

    RegularX Master of Dagoth Lies

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2000
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't trust previews anymore, or even videos. You don't know what things are running on, how much an image might be photoshopped, or what state the actual codebase was in. The number of times I've looked at a "ingame" shot only to notice some wide disparity on my own monitor has now had me lump previews and ads as practically the same medium.

    Heck, quoting from epic's own site:

    That sounds really, really cool (and surely is technically) - but is it a big part of UT2003? Of course not, because such effects are costly over the network. HL2 is in a similar spot - Valve is trying to drum up excitement for their tech. I get that and I don't have anything wrong with it (or the above quote, because ... well it is neat tech) but I'm not going to designing a HL2 mod for features which currently are only tangible on a web site.
     
  8. NuKeR

    NuKeR Majestic 12 - Lead Mapper

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2001
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    UT2004 is the exact same engine build as UT2003, there wont be any new graphical effects or material types.
     
  9. Corran

    Corran Danger Mouse

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2003
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually they've said they're using a slightly newer version of the engine for UT2004.
     
  10. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    There has also been mention of higher graphics modes to accomodate for new graphics cards (Geforce FX, Radeon 9800 etc).
     
  11. NuKeR

    NuKeR Majestic 12 - Lead Mapper

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2001
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Impossible, unless they broke compatibility with UT2003, which would be totally bad for them.
     
  12. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, since they're bigging the game up as being backwards compatible with 2K3 servers, that would totally kill people's confidence in Epic if they suddenly updated the engine and made it incompatible with 2K3 servers.
     
  13. RegularX

    RegularX Master of Dagoth Lies

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2000
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    I could be wrong here, but I thought the Unreal engine was OO enough that you could make updates to the rendering engine without necessarily breaking things like server compatibility. The UScript code which comprises say, CTF, and the map data format could remain the same. Certainly it poses potentially large restrictions (or else we'd all be able to log onto UT servers with 2k3).
     
  14. Corran

    Corran Danger Mouse

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2003
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    0
    By engine I assue that the interviews and things have been refering to the rendering engine being updated and extra gizmos being updated. As Regular said, UT is OO enough that the interface between he rendering engine and the game code is flexible enough to edit one without breaking compatability.
     
  15. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    You're thinking of the engine incorrectly, IMO. In this case, the updates are made by hand to functions of the renderer encased in DLLs. That's why they are able to offer updates only for the sound, or only for the opengl, etc.

    An Engine update would require changing TONS of native code that would ultimately result in breaking compatibility with every other version of the game in existence, which is why patches cannot be released that, in essence, update the engine to a newer build.

    Also realize that the UT2003 code is A LONG WAYS from whatever the current build of the Unreal Engine is. DE made huge alterations to the engine just to make the game, therefore an engine upgrade is impractical and unfeasible due to the amount of extra work that would go into.

    This is plainly evidenced by the inability of Ued3 to open Unreal 2 packages.
     
  16. RegularX

    RegularX Master of Dagoth Lies

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2000
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    I dunno Brizzy, from the CliffyB interview "The engine is in great shape and has been tweaked and improved quite a bit."

    I think maybe we're on two different levels of "update" here. Minor improvements/tweaks might be possible, but it's not like we're going to see pixel-shaded-dynamic-lighting (tm)
     
  17. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well yeah, difference in version between the two games is huge. Unreal 2 is what....about 640 or thereabouts. Compared to 2K3's current build of 2225.
     
  18. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    but UT2k3s build number doesn't match to the build number of the Unreal Engine, but to UT2k3s build.

    Unreal 2 iirc is something like 979 or something...but again they start at the engine build their given and work their way up from there, the actual Unreal Engine could be at build 9999 for all we know.

    and I think that CliffyB is referring to the UT2003 engine, not the Unreal Engine.
     
  19. Evil-Devil

    Evil-Devil silence

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    To the UT2K3 / UT2K4 compilacation with updating the engine. I´d read that they will provide a patch for the 2K3 users, so they could play on 2K4 Server. MAybe they really change some engine features. but the most 2k3 content will remain. And they only said it will be backward compatible, not forward without an patch or so.
     
  20. NuKeR

    NuKeR Majestic 12 - Lead Mapper

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2001
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol, though that cant happen, it would be kinda stupid since UT2003 users could download UT2004 maps through online servers. UT2004 is backward compatible, UT2003 isnt forward compatible.
     

Share This Page