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graphics cards again ;-))

Discussion in 'Original Unreal Tournament' started by Axel, Jun 19, 2000.

  1. Axel

    Axel New Member

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    Hey Guys
    Good day to you all ,i've been worrying like mad wondering what card to buy. Geforce 2 or Voodoo 5 (nice problem to have i guess). Now we all know that UT runs like a dream in glide and not so good in D3D, or so i had heard, (never tried it being a voodoo man for the last few years) anyways, i bin checking round soooooo many websites trying to find out what was going to suit me the best and ya know what? i could not find a definative answer anywhere "the voodoo is good for this, the geforce is good for that" etc etc, ad infinitum.
    Now, i really love UT and i will continue to play it for a long time to come but i had to make the decision based on the other games i play (want to play in the future) So i plucked up the courage and went down my local PC World and bought the .......... 3D PROPHET GEFORCE 2 GTS (32 meg version by hercules). Wow, i gotta say i was impressed just seeing this baby, all the ram has its own heatsink (top and bottom) and the size of the thing!!! its enormous, nearly twice the size of my old voodoo3 3000AGP. oh, an its blue which is nice if ya like that sort of thing. Now before removing the voodoo card i had to run some benchy's to know if i had made the right choice, i used the phobia time demo with everything turned up high. I averaged 44 fps with the voodoo in 800x600. So, out came the old servant and in went the new, installation was a breeze so i went straight in to UT ,reconfigured for D3D and ran the benchy's again (drum role)....... 43 FPS 800x600 on a game that really needs glide to run at its best, so now im feeling really confident time to try it in 32 bits........ 41 fps no probs at all. So, i THINK i have made the right choice and am telling you this in case there is anyone else worried about wasting their hard earned on a new card. Yes, i was very close to buying a voodoo5 and yes, i know i would most likely have averaged something like 55 fps with it (maybe a lot more, i dont really know) Btw the drivers i used for the geforce are the ones out the box, vers 5.16 which are very immature so i will be downloading the newer ones later on tonite (calls are cheaper for us poor souls in the uK ;-)) and i think i can expect a bit more improvement when i do. So chaps, if you cant make up your mind , i hope this goes some way in helping you make the right choice for YOU (thats what is most important, yes?) Btw i guess i should list my machine specs here:)

    Athlon 600
    160 meg pc100 ram
    16 gig 7200 rpm hardisc
    gigabyte 7IXE mobo
    Oh and one more thing , i was using ver 4.13 of UT cos i dont like the way 4.20 messes with my connex.
    Oh one other thing ,anyone wanna buy a voodoo 3000 agp £50 ovno ;-))

    ------------------
    Man, ilove this game!!!!!
     
  2. but5trammer

    but5trammer New Member

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  3. Kukuman

    Kukuman HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT

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    Keep the Geforce! The heatsinks on the memory don't help in overclocking, but still, keep the Geforce! I'd rather sacrifice 2 fps to have a good, quality video card that wasn't designed by monkeys on crack. :eek:


    [​IMG]
    Kukuman|PuF
    Batai D'va! http://www.realsystems.ws/

    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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    R+ tv+ b+ DI D- G e- h! r--- z--
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    Tortoise brand, the pot cleaner, specially selected, the pot cleaner, the best pot cleaner in the world is specially selecteeeeed, it's Tortoise braaaaand!


    [This message has been edited by Kukuman (edited 06-19-2000).]
     
  4. FrigginAnT

    FrigginAnT Cow Spot Pimp

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  5. BigSpike|MyU

    BigSpike|MyU Skilled

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    I am very confused here. You "upgraded" your vid card and lost fps, and you say go with Geforce instead of Voodoo? Anyone else confused with WHY? :D :D
     
  6. Wingznut PEZ

    Wingznut PEZ New Member

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    I just got a Voodoo5-5500, and I get MORE frames per second, than I did with my V3-3000.


    "designed by monkeys on crack"...

    How so?

    [​IMG]
    Wingznut [PEZ]
    ICQ #29598363

    [This message has been edited by Wingznut PEZ (edited 06-19-2000).]
     
  7. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Sounds like they're both good cards and UT will not truly test their limits the way future games will. Plus, it looks like glide is going the way of the dinosaur (read:extinct), so I wouldn't sweat the details a whole lot for this round of video card battles.

    [​IMG]
    Visit the PuF Home Page. hal{PuF}


    hal{PuF}
     
  8. DividedSky

    DividedSky Fabio-like<br><img src="http://www-atm.ucdavis.edu

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    Axel,

    Please elaborate - I am confused like BigSpike. Why are you happy with a FPS drop?

    I'm interested because I have to make the same Voodoo5/GTS2 decision in the next month as well.

    Thanks,
    DS
     
  9. The_Inflictor

    The_Inflictor Honest and unmerciful

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    Axel, I might just buy that V3 of you...seriously :)

    Let me think about it though.

    [​IMG]
    "Have I shown you lately what my clan can do?
    Cos I own you arse now by rights, We got family!" One Big Family - Embrace
     
  10. Wingznut PEZ

    Wingznut PEZ New Member

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    Glide or no glide, the UT engine still runs better on a Voodoo than any other card. And the UT engine will be around for a while longer (can you say Duke?).

    3DRealms has already come out and said that DNF will run better on a V5.

    And throw me into the group that can't understand how losing performance equals a good idea.

    [​IMG]
    Wingznut [PEZ]
    ICQ #29598363
     
  11. The_Dudester

    The_Dudester Surfing the edge of underconfidence.

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    Um...if you read, he *hasn't* lost performance really.

    In 16-bit he has lost 2 fps.
    but he can now run in 32-bit mode with a loss of only 3 fps.

    So he has increased colour depth with a minimal loss in frame rate.
    This is known as a performance increase! :)

    [​IMG]
    The Zen Master Basho was weighing out flax when some of his monks chanced across him.
    A monk asked Basho, "What is Buddha-nature?"
    Basho replied, "Three pounds of flax."
     
  12. Wingznut PEZ

    Wingznut PEZ New Member

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    Where can I get the Phobia timedemo. I'd love to run some comparison benchmarks with my V5.


    Btw, using D3D and 800x600x32bit (all details on max), I just got 69.6fps on the city intro flyby. And I get 63.5 with 2xFSAA on.

    [​IMG]
    Wingznut [PEZ]
    ICQ #29598363
     
  13. Axel

    Axel New Member

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    Ok, i had no intention of making this a 'which card is best ' debate and still have no intention of doing so, but i feel i have to clear up a few points that some of you have made:


    BIGSPIKE: No where in my post did i say "go with the geforce" a voodoo will always win in UT (D3D or Glide) What i said was : if anyone is agonising over which card to buy (as i was,bigtime) you now have something to go on, you also say your "very confused here" cos i upgraded my voodoo card and lost fps, yes i lost a few frames but i expected it to be a LOT worse,the reason i am happy is, i now know the power of this card so when i do play other games i will get a BIG performance increase over my voodoo3,i have already noticed it BIGTIME in some of em (not glide games)and yes, it will beat a voodoo 5 if the benchys i did on my mates machine (he has one) are anything to go by.

    WINGNUTZ: Yes m8 ,obviously you got more fps when you upgraded to your V5 you would be pretty pissed if you didnt ,right? UT is made for your card it will probably never run as good on anything as it does on a voodoo, the point i was trying to make is : if i can get 41fps 32 bit (3 less than my voodoo3 in 16 bit) on a card that UT hates, its gotta be a pretty awsome card,yes? Run the phobia time demo on your voodoo, it will beat the geforce 2 into the ground and probably dance on it as well but run an open gl game or a d3d game on the same speed machine as mine and the geforce will win every time.

    HAL:Yea m8 glide WILL soon be extinct, that was my main reason for going with the Geforce 2, cos in my humble opinion its features will be better supported than the V5's (time will tell).

    DIVIDEDSKY: "Please elaborate-i am confused like Bigspike"."Why are you happy with a fps drop?" Please read above m8 (bigspike).If you are going to buy a new card, you have to go with what you feel is right for you dude, i guess if all your gonna play is UT then get the voodoo if not then bite the bullet and make a choice. I can tell ya what though it wont be easy for you to decide :).

    DUDESTER: Thankyou, at least some of you were paying attention:-))

    THE_INFLICTOR: Yea m8 its up for sale ,might prove difficult though (depending on where ya are)

    And btw chaps (and im loath to say this cos i hate the bloody game) Quake 3 arena looked and ran fantastic in 32 bit mode 1024x768 much better/nicer looking than on my voodoo (still wont play it though, ugh!!)
    PS im writing this offline so if i have missed a few posts that need answering i will do em later:-))
     
  14. Wingznut PEZ

    Wingznut PEZ New Member

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    Point taken. :)

    Hey, last night I was running a bunch of D3D benchmarks and decided to play some games with D3D. It felt... odd. Definitely different than Glide. I'm not sure how to describe it. It didn't control as sharp, but felt rather loose... Is it just me, or does D3D feel different?

    [​IMG]
    Wingznut [PEZ]
    ICQ #29598363
     
  15. Wingznut PEZ

    Wingznut PEZ New Member

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    I'm still hoping for an explanation of why Kukuman thinks that the V5 was "designed by monkeys on crack."

    [​IMG]
    Wingznut [PEZ]
    ICQ #29598363
     
  16. Axel

    Axel New Member

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    hi Wingnutz:
    yea i agree d3d does 'feel' different,now please dont take offence at this but on my voodoo 3 d3d was never that good anyways. I am in NO WAY suggesting that is the case for the V5:)

    [​IMG]
    Man, ilove this game!!!!!
     
  17. Kukuman

    Kukuman HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT

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    Well, OK, maybe I was a little mad at 3dfx at the time, what with my Voodoo3 "snow" effect that makes my computer crash every time I run any game that gives me good FPS(how ironic). I am changing that statement to "chimpanzees on pot". :eek:

    Look, people, UT isn't the only game out there! I know it's hard to grasp, but it's true. Future games are going to benefit from T&L, and remember how long it took 3dfx to do 32 bit color? About 2 years! I said it before, and I'll say it again: I'd rather sacrifice a couple of fps in UT(I wouldn't notice it anyway) to play future games well.

    Something that people forget is that once you go above 40fps you can't really see differences in frame rates. It's much easier to see a 20fps to 30fps difference than a 40fps to 50fps difference. The only thing that high FPSes are good for are bragging rights and making sure the frame rate doesn't drop.

    Axel, if you take into account the 16-32bit difference, and the longetivity of the Geforce2, you did make the right decision.


    [​IMG]
    Kukuman|PuF
    Batai D'va! http://www.realsystems.ws/

    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    GCS d- s-:-- a--- C+++ UL++ P L++ E--- W++ N+ o? K? w O? M-- V? PS PE Y PGP? t--- 5? X-
    R+ tv+ b+ DI D- G e- h! r--- z--
    -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- http://www.geekcode.com/

    Tortoise brand, the pot cleaner, specially selected, the pot cleaner, the best pot cleaner in the world is specially selecteeeeed, it's Tortoise braaaaand!


    [This message has been edited by Kukuman (edited 06-20-2000).]
     
  18. BigSpike|MyU

    BigSpike|MyU Skilled

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    I did overlook the 16/32 bit statement. I am just a Voodoo fan, I have had other cards and they don't play the games I play the way I want them to play, and my Voodoo's always have. I misunderstood your results, but am still a little confused. I play more than UT, I currently have 25 different games on my hard drive so I KNOW there are more games than UT. BTW my Voodoo 3500 runs ALL of them puuuuuuuuurfectly. No, you are right, you never specifically said go out and get a geforce card, but state that you were going to buy and Voodoo5 and now are not because of your geforce results, same thing IMHO. We can beat the vid card debate in the ground, but what is good for your machine and tastes might not be good for mine and the other way around too. Just my opinion. :D :D :D
    Thanks for the info though. Just makes me want my Voodoo5 even more. :D :D
     
  19. Wingznut PEZ

    Wingznut PEZ New Member

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    Here's my take on T&L. Sure, there are a few games coming out that support T&L. But T&L certainly won't be required on those games, to get more than acceptable frame rates. Eventually, games will be developed that are optimized for T&L. But for me, that's at least one video card upgrade for me.

    For instance... Q3 supports hardware Transform (has it's own lighting engine) and MDK2 supports hardware T&L. With a GTS you get a few more fps, but no extra polygons or anything like that. However, my V5 will play both those games at 1280 resolution, with well above acceptable frame rates. And like what's been said, once you get above a certain frame rate... who cares?

    Yes! There are more games other than UT. This is a definite benefit of the V5. FSAA on games such as NFS5, MDK2, Motocross Madness 2, etc.. is absolutely stunning.

    [​IMG]
    Wingznut [PEZ]
    ICQ #29598363
     
  20. Clayeth

    Clayeth Classic

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    The reason he's happy with a 2fps drop is that UT runs like ****e in anything other than Glide. So if you can get near the same performance as a V3, you are going to kick arse in anything else.

    For example: I have one of the very first released GeForce 256 cards (SDR even), an Elsa Erazor X.

    I get 43.## on the flyby intro, at 960x???, and 16-bit... not that impressive. But, in any other game, even those that are much newer, I can run EVERY SETTING MAXED and get much higher speeds (does anyone know how to get fps in Soldier of Fortune).

    The bottom line, is that the GeForce 2 is a better card than the Voodoo's.

    But I think the next generation of GeForce cards will be the ones that really show its power, not the GeForce 2. It's still only been about 6 months since the GF256 came out, and it was most likely supposed to be waht the GeForce 2 is, and was released early for the hollidays. When nVidia gets memory that can keep up with their chip, it'll blow everyone else away!
     

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