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global warming? or global cooling?!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Warm Pudgy, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. BmB23

    BmB23 Take a pick!

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    Well, it doesnt matter, because this summer* something will happen.

    *Possibly later, I dont know. It could be summer, it could be in two years... but summer is most likely.
     
  2. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    Darn-doodly right! And anyone who thinks otherwise can just go straight to heck.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    Eco-Facism 101

    As far as I'm concerned, per-capita figires mean nothing. At all. Net emmisions are the only thing worth giving a damn about. They're still going up. They're not increasing as fast it's true, but they're still increasing in real terms.

    The only thing that's good enough is a world as clean and sustainable as it's theoretically possible to get. Nothing less than that is acceptable.

    I'm sorry if it offends your sensibilities, but that car you drive? It doesn't have a future. You're right, some progress has been made, but the change being made isn't happening fast enough and isn't far-reaching enough. I'm not just bashing the US here, the entire industrialised world is guilty here.

    Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed.

    Not so sure about that one, but I'll let it go this time.

    Fair enough. But the US, and the rest of the industrialised world, aren't doing it fast enough. People don't seem to realised that to rebuild this planet, and to keep this species in something approaching civilisation, we need to all make serious sacrafices. We'll need to keep making them until we have the technology and means to maintain what we want/need without ripping this planet apart to do it. Because how we live, right here, right now, cannot last. It is going to collapse. The slower we react, the nearer the edge we get. Yes, nations are doing things to start to improve matters. But no nation has done enough, no nation has done close to enough. Because every government knows that if they ask the people to make the sacrafices required, they'll be voted out in favour of a government who'll keep the people feeling safe, warm, with pizza a phone call away and with the TV telling them it'll all be alright as long as they keep buying more stuff.

    Well, sorry, but it won't be ok.
     
  4. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    I like the smell of french fries. :) From what I hear, that's the only "drawback" really. Converting to Biodiesel would be great for agriculture (whether global warming is our fault or natures, pollution isn't helping)....though action movies may not be as cool anymore if cars don't blow up but rather leak french fry grease all over the road.
     
  5. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    I'm sorry if critical thought doesn't appeal to you, but the fact of the matter is, the people living in America are emitting less.
    No they are not. They are going down. Our population is going up. Soon our emissions will be going down at a FASTER RATE than our population is going up.
    "I don't know, I can 'theorize' a lot" /Han Solo paraphrase
    Gee, you think? I had no idea that somewhere in the next 5 or 10 years it would wear down to the point where it no longer functioned and I would have to replace it. Thank you very much for telling me that automobiles deteriorate over time and are replaced with better models. I'm glad I have you here to tell me these things.
    It's happening. Give it time.
    I would say our ability to reduce emissions without massive expenditures, compared to countries who are struggling to pay the bills in the hopes that in 100 years, the world might be 1/20-degree less hot, says a lot about our ability to manage without.
    Did you know that the Cuyahoga River, right here in Ohio, caught fire back in 1969? Yes, a RIVER caught FIRE. And that was only the latest of a series of them dating back to 1936. So I look at the improvements made in the last generation, and the more dramatic improvements made in the last decade, and I wonder why you're so much more alarmed now, when things are getting progressively better and better every year, as opposed to the good old days when we had to call the fire department to put out our river.

    If you want to continue to be so rabidly critical of the issue, that's your prerogative, but I find it to be categorically unfair to the long and significant history of improvements at the turn of the century.
     
  6. Traxis

    Traxis Waiting for the deathblow

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    The thing is, a lot of people can't afford to make those sacrifices. I work 73 miles from where I live. I can't afford to move closer. Obviously I can't walk or ride a bike. I can't afford a hybrid car. So I have to drive. Yes, I'm causing plenty of pollution. But the decision to either stop polluting or put food on the table is an obvious one, for me at least. You have to realize that we need to be able to meet our energy needs with alternative fuels before we can stop using fossil fuels. We are spending plenty of money on alternative fuel research, but it doesn't happen overnight. Hydrogen cars, for example, won't be affordable until the year 2020. (Source).

    I agree that we need to change as fast as we can, but you need to realize that for lots of people it is impossible to change that fast while being able to sustain themselves.

    Also, the reason so few people take environmentalists seriously about global warming is because most of the time, environmentalists use faulty science and lies to put forth their agenda. Look at their attitudes about DDT, or genetically modified crops, for example.
     
  7. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    Agreed. Environmentalists only ruin their own agenda when they ignore reason and basic economics, which is why many things that should have been done have been ignored. You have to realize we can't put civilization on hold to fix the environment, but we need to find a way to fix these things and still stay moderately sane as far as the current system and economy is concerned.

    I have yet to hear an environmentalist put forward a moderate platform for reforming our current standards. Some of you are as bad as the right wing fundies. If we want to change peoples minds and fix this country we need moderation and reason, not another blind swing and a miss.
     
  8. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    I disagree. Setting free a lab full of minks so that they could be squooshed on the adjacent highway completely emancipated me from my callous disregard for animal life. God bless the ALF.
     
  9. GotBeer?

    GotBeer? The nozzle is now calibrating

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    :tup: That inspired a pretty decent beer. :tup:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    Civilisation does not need to be put on hold. It merely has to be changed. If we want any chance of saving the planet we will drastically need to change our lifestyles. Im not talking installing a few low energy bulbs, Im talking about fundamentally changing the way we live and the way society is run.

    Im not going to stand here and pretend its going to be easy. Its going to be hard. Real hard. But much less harder than trying to deal with the consequences if we choose not to change now.

    People keep worrying about what environmental protocols etc will do to the economy. That may be a concern with single Oil rigs or factories etc but we have to remember. This is the whole planet were dealing with here. We cant just say "we broke it" and buy another one (though with the profits of oil companies today we probably could :D ).

    What people fail to understand is that if we put our current economy in front of fixing global warming the result will be unthinkable. I dont want future generations in their Hurricane shelters saying "remember when Bush ditched Kyoto because he cared about Oil more?".

    Thats not to say we have to go back to the dark ages. We can build a better economy on environmental conscience (sp?) and enjoy technology free from the clutches of Oil. I hope that in 70 years people will get their electricity from micro renewables and the fuel cell in their car while living in a ultra-effecient eco friendly house with all the benefits of modern technology, and more.

    Some will always say "its impossible to change our ways" and I say "well, we havent got a choice". I really doubt any oil will be affordable in 30 years, so its hydrogen/biofuels or walking.
     
  11. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    I'd rather we just find another planet to go live on. This one is kinda lame, and we already shat all over it. Time to pack our **** and leave. :(

    I call dibs on the Kuiper Belt!
     
  12. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    Mission to mars! Its already got a CO2 atmosphere!
     
  13. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    Animal Rights. Human Wrongs.

    That's one thing we are in 100% agreement on.

    Most "Animal Rights" organisations have not fecking sense. By the way, the main impact of releasing mink wasn't that the mink got nailed on local roads, but that they systematically wiped out the local wildlife. The ALF need a damn good kicking.
     
  14. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    Well, there are a hundred different stories of liberation, and none of them ended well. I just remember one in particular here in America where that happened. But yes, minks are nasty little buggers and don't play well with others, so they're not the sort to fade into a local ecosystem.
     
  15. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    What horrible creatures. Perhaps we should make coats out of them, to save the wildlife. ;)
     
  16. DeeperShade

    DeeperShade Banned

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    Related news:

    A federal appeals court today overturned the Environmental Protection Agency's attempt to exempt power plants, refineries and other pollution sources from Clean Air Act rules that require them to install costly new pollution controls whenever they make changes that increase their emissions.

    Ruling in favor of a coalition of states and environmental advocacy groups, the court declared that the plain language of the act required a much stricter approach, as the Clinton administration had devised, and that only "a Humpty Dumpty" interpretation, as the court called the E.P.A.'s position, could construe the law otherwise.

    "We decline such a world view," said the unanimous decision of a three-judge panel that included Judge Janice Rogers Brown, a conservative appointed last summer by President Bush.

    Plaintiffs in the case — more than a dozen states, including New York and California, and a large group of environmental organizations — hailed the decision as one of the most important in years for environmental protection. The law governs more than 800 power plants around the country as well as 17,000 factories, refineries and chemical plants.

    Link

    Some good news at least.
     
  17. Bean 3:16

    Bean 3:16 New Member

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    It is sorta. I've pretty much fallen off the "Hurr, Bush sucks at all" bandwagon, and just generally disapprove of everyone's antics, but what this administration has done to the EPA, castrating and bending it to its will is honestly offensive to me. I suppose this stops the bleeding a bit, but for the damage to be undone is going to be a mighty task for the next administration (assuming they have that interest).
     
  18. BmB23

    BmB23 Take a pick!

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    EDIT: Ah, **** that... It's so uncertain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  19. Warm Pudgy

    Warm Pudgy i wanna be a nazi mod like swarthy

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    im just gunna throw some wild non-sense out here

    so what ever happened to the ozone hole that was letting all this radiation in?

    evidently theres plenty of ozone to keep the rays out

    and what about this article that says hydrogen may increase the size of the ozone holes?

    http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm
    heres an interesting find about how the oceans are warming because of an increase of underwater volcanoes

    everyone can probably agree that polution happens, and too much is a bad thing

    in this picture you can see where the polution "hot spots" are, obviously
    but how come if theres a world wide problem, how come the entire planet isnt yellow to red but instead about 95% of it appears to be blue with none of the notorius grean house gasses (CFC's/Haloalkane, NO, CO2, SO2) being overwhelmingly present?


    Haloalkane
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  20. das_ben

    das_ben Concerned.

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    Evidently there's plenty of ozone to keep your lungs happy. What are you on about? If you quote Wikipedia, at least bother to read through and understand the whole article.

    Also, what is the linked map supposed to show? O3 pollution? NO? CO2? Any of the other gasses you mentioned? All of them? General pollution?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006

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