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global warming? or global cooling?!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Warm Pudgy, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    The effect of so many thousand jet engine exhausts creates a ultra insulating cloud that traps heat. Of course it also reflects sunlight away, so i myself am not too sure, i read it in a paper explaining why we must not expand aviation if we ever want to stop the warming.

    I dont see how banning planes would drive the economy into dirt. If we dont stop the warming, there might not be any economies left to save. This may sound like a doomsday warning, but i would much rather destroy the economy that destroy the earth. Besides, our economy is largely dictated by what we want, not what we need. If we only used what we needed to survive (food, water, material for shelter etc) and not what we wanted (technology) then there shouldnt be a problem.
     
  2. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    Actually, we are slowing down the growth instead of reducing existing C02 emissions. Nice try WORF, but Bush really has done very little but sit on his ass. Considering the enormity of the issue, you think he would do more than deny that anything is happening. But no, why would we expect him to do anything worthwhile.

    Sounds like utter bull**** to me. The fact of the matter is that there simply is more industry pollution than there could ever be Jet pollution. This idea is pseudo-science at best.

    Although the internet has changed things, there is still alot of money in and out of the Airlines industry, not including the other uses of jet engines, as well as the infrastructure to maintain and supply those parts. It would hurt the economy pretty badly, and not really solve any problems, since your crazed ideas about jets aren't based in reality anyways.

    And if you want to be a survivalist, go ahead. Don't use fire though, thats technology. Oh, and it causes pollution as well. I guess you can eat berries, and sleep outside. Oh, and enjoy the rampant warlord states because without technology humans are easily preyed upon. Get the picture yet?

    Technology is here to stay buddy. You don't have to use it, but if anything we need to turn towards technology to help fix these problems. Replacing existing coal plants with an emission free energy source would be good, but we need technology to get there. Hydrogen cars are nifty, but guess what is going to make it feasible? Technology.

    Sure, theres alot of tech that is a waste of time and energy, but with it comes the one goal humanity has agreed upon from day one. We need tools to survive, and to survive better we will need the sexier tools.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2006
  3. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    and another who actually believes in clean coal....
     
  4. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    It's not just transport, it's plastic.

    Nice work on totally missing the point there. Any emmisions are too much, the idea is to remove emmisions completely. It's what we have to do. We don't have a choice anymore.

    Also, on a totally seperate issue, burning fossil fuels is a dumb idea anyway, because it just means we'll use them up faster. Like oil, and the 40 years until it completely runs out. But that'll be too late anyway, because by then it'll be unusable by most because supply will have outstripped demand, meaning a massive increase in price. Which is exactly what's already started to happen. Take a good, long look at the price of oil right now. Because from now on, the only way that price is going is up.

    40 years sounds like a long time, but in reality, it's not. By the time most of the users of this forum retire, we have to have completely switched to another energy source. In the space of your working lives, Human civilisation in it's entirety has to completely change. It's not some kind of nice, but impractical idea, or some kind of utopian concept. It's the only thing that will save civilisation. If you're not too busy watching trash TV or ordering another pizza, take a look around to see what progress we, as a species, have made towards that goal. not looking good is it?

    Just a thought to occupy your minds...
     
  5. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    Not only that, but there are a myriad number of other uses for oil. Wasting oil on automobiles and other such things is stupid, and unnecessary.
     
  6. ant75

    ant75 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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    I really wish i'll live long enough to see the day oil is gonna run out. Oh boy it's gonna be fun to watch, especially in the US. I hope it comes soon enough though, because forecasts seem to keep pushing back the planned outcome.
     
  7. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    You probably won't live to see that day because oil will always be there. However, the actual end won't really happen overnight. Oil prices will slowly go up, until they skyrocket and noone can afford the $20 a gallon of gas.
     
  8. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    You're so obviously French, it's adorable :) But yes, I imagine it will be rather humorous.

    Is that whole Mars colonization thing on the table or what? I've been outta the loop lately.
     
  9. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    *cough* BioDiesel *cough*
     
  10. ant75

    ant75 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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    Hey, i think you're cute too ;).
     
  11. Emotionless Ice

    Emotionless Ice Banned: <a href=/showthread.php?t=171372>attemptin

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    It's not humans fault and it's not the gases fault.
    That is what everyone wants to say everyone wants to blame it on Bush and god darn it I will too.
    Bush is so ugly he creates Global Warming.

    Okay I'm being serious. I think Global Warmins is happening right now. October is fall when it is suppose to cool down. I swear last years October was really hot and winter doesn't seemed to want to let up.
    We are having freaky storms every were. Look at this is snowed in Camden Park and San Frisco.
     
  12. DeeperShade

    DeeperShade Banned

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    No, The core of the earth is molten magma. We couldn't even get close to it.
    I was referring to ice core and tree core samples.
     
  13. Vers Vlees

    Vers Vlees Oohhh a custom title

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    Global warming or Global cooling (or any other environmental problem) in the Netherlands the automobile gets blamed for it. The only way the Dutch governement can and wants to deal with pollution is when they can charge more environmental bull**** TAXES.

    Global Warming is yet again a another fashion word for the environmental TALIBAN.
    Just like Acid Rains in the eighties, evil CFK's in spray cans and refrigurators, the Korenwolf(some kind of Hamster which stopped several large buildings projects) and the most recent one "FINEDUST". Which is the biggest BULL**** fake OVERRATED hippy tree hugging made up problem of them all.

    Ugh what makes it worse is that my country is ruled by the environmental Taliban :(
     
  14. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    That was pretty much the point of my argument, its just sort of got lost. We most certainly need technology to survive, I dont want to go back to the dark ages. Just alot of effort is spent on pretty much useless stuff.

    The aviation industry does not contribute that much to global emissions. However, it is the Fastest growing source of emissions. Most of it stems from this crap of living in one city and working in another while using a 20 minute plane ride to get between. The real problem lies is holiday makers. People will just have to accept they cant go on holiday by plane. Sound tough? maybe it is, but were not backing out of this when the going gets a little rough.

    The fact about aircraft exhaust is Not At All Rubbish.


    EDIT: Lol, just saw vers post. Tell you what, you can take your "scepticism" to some desert Island along with Bush and leave everyone else to deal with the real problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2006
  15. Vers Vlees

    Vers Vlees Oohhh a custom title

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    Real problem? Havent you read my post.
    I dont know how they deal with environmental problems in your country but over here its just a excuse to charge more taxes.

    Some of these problems have been blown out of proportion by the media and the environmental taliban. Finedust is a good example (the Euro's know what Im talking about)
    Another reason I get pissed off by the whole environmental taliban is their idiotic hate for cars. The car gets blamed for almost every type of pollution. Hell even if our only Nuclear powerplant would blow up the car gets blamed for (radioactive) pollution.

    Because of that whole global warming crap we are taking idiotic measures. That cost the Dutch citizens&compagnies billions and lets not forget the bureaucrazy that comes with the insane strict environmental laws but the effects are no greater then a mosquito''s fart.
    Do not forget the Netherlands are the california of the EU when it comes to environmental regulation. Hell we are probally the only ones who can pass the koyoto protocol. (Which is not bad considering this is a small and tightpacked nation)
     
  16. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    First of all global warming is not "crap"....

    Secondly the reason the car gets blamed for everything is because its the biggest problem. I say charge people massive taxes for car use to encourage sustainable alternatives.

    Thirdly, you say global warming is an excuse to charge taxes. I say you use global warming as an excuse to complain about your taxes.

    Also you complain about environmental taxes, but I guarantee you will be the first one to complain about global warming when it causes a problem for you.

    Its like the old windfarm problem. People say "no windfarms" then complain when theyre charged with the bill for nuclear. Or people dont want high taxes then they complain when their government runs out of money for public services. Its pathetic.
     
  17. GotBeer?

    GotBeer? The nozzle is now calibrating

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    Everything I need to know I learned from Charlie Sheen in "The Arrival": Global Warming (I capitalize to make it sound scarier) is being caused by the evil aliens, making it more comfortable for their "occupation" of The Earth.
    They're pushing this pretty heavily in Iowa right now.
    http://www.soybiodiesel.com/
    I've actually been wondering why this isn't more widespread ever since I read a news article 5 (6?) years ago about a successful biodiesel test in an Eastern city's bus fleet. The only side effect they mentioned was that the exhaust smelled like french fries. Many people have actually converted a car successfully to run on grease from french fry vats and nothing else. So there's an alternative to hydrogen fuel, with it's still-huge storage and flamability issues.

    Hey, if this Global Warming thing is true, maybe we'll luck out and it will balance out the loss of heat from The Sun's current cooling trend.
     
  18. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    So, according to that article, noone knows yet. So, there is no basis to assume jets are causing as much greenhouse effects you say.

    Iowan farmers are being paid not to grow biodiesel. The fact of the matter is, the government is preventing the free-market process of transfer from one fuel to another. Bush doesn't want this country running on cheap biofuel or hydrogen, the oil companies need to suck out every last dollar they can.
     
  19. Vers Vlees

    Vers Vlees Oohhh a custom title

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    No the car isnt the biggest problem its the heavy industry and shipping in some area's. Secondly the use and owning a car is already taxed to max and I can already tell you alternatives arent really better over here. yes there is public transport but that isnt so environmental friendly as you might think.

    If my governement would have REALLY cared about the environment:

    -They would have never stopped the subsidy(actually a tax benefit) off Solar panels for the private sector(house owners) Infact it was one the first things they scrapped. What is even worse the whole solar panel industry for house owners collapsed.(I know a industry running on subsidies is bad but hey its for mother earth ;))
    But then again seeing the governement gets a income from Natural Gas sales. Well we cant have people using less Natural Gas for heating :rolleyes:

    - They would have encouraged Bio-fuels YEARS ago. Germany and Sweden have it for years. If you put cooking oil in your car diesel. Customs will punish you even harder then a drug smuggler.
    But bio fuels can be a good thing for being a nice alternative for the agriculture subsidies. Let the farmers produce soja seeds instead of buying up their extra supplies. And it greatly reduces CO2 pollution.
    But this governement has always been very hostile against BIO fuels. Partly because they want to keep up the "oh noes polluter pays taxes".
    (and yes Bobcobb is right about the governements stand on bio fuels. Finally someone who knows what I mean :D)
    Even now they have only given a few manufactures permission to produce biodiesel and Ethanol.
    Im personally very much in favour off the use of biofuels because the farmers can get a new way of making money but also the creation of jobs for whole bio fuel industry And It reduces our dependency from those idiots in the Middle east.

    - And you talk about windfarms. The same hippy douches who bitch on (nuclear) power plants are also the same ones who are quite fanatical against windfarms. Because it kills them birds and it pollutes the horizon. Not to mention everyone has a real NIMBY mind over here. We had plans for putting Windfarms on sea but thanks to the environmental taliban that was scrapped.
    Windfarms may not be alternative I still think they can be a good addition to our energy needs.
    About nuke powerplants. you start about the prize for going Nuclear. Well our idiotic Minister of Environment van Geel has suggested to build more nuclear powerplants to combat global warming(so they can do away with conventional plants) I mean WTF??!? Nuclear power isnt really good for mother nature you know. I mean yeah no CO2 but instead you get radioactive waste. If the idiot van Geel really cared about mommy earth he would have brought Bio mass power plants as alternative.

    -Further you say I dont care for the whole global warming thing.
    I live 4 meters below sealevel. Ill will be one the first people who will get wet feet with rising sea levels.

    -And yes I bitch on the so called bull**** environmental related taxes.
    I would stop bitching if they would use the money to actually do stuff for the environment. Like investing in solar panels for houseowners, BIO fuels, windfarms, research for alternatives fuels, better protection from the sea etc
    but instead that money dissapears in the public funds. So it gets wasted on other things except the environment.

    Wanna tax in name of the environment fine but SPEND it for caring the environment.
     
  20. SlipStreams_65

    SlipStreams_65 User Titles are Useless.

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    I appear to have misunderstood. I thought you were one of these "dont give a crap about the environment just complain about taxes..." people. Damn, your government really needs some sorting out there. Especially the solar panels, thats just wrong. Lets not even start on nuclear :eek:
     

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