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Gamer's Bill Of Rights

Discussion in 'News & Articles' started by hal, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    According to ShackNews, Stardock and Gas Powered Games have put together a Gamer's Bill of Rights that will likely have many PC gamers (and no doubt others) nodding in agreement. Great job guys!

    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.
    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.
    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
     
  2. Zur

    Zur surrealistic mad cow

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    How about launching a web site. If one games publisher jumps on the bandwagon to say +1 I'm sure others would follow.
     
  3. -=WolverinE=-

    -=WolverinE=- New Member

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    Will this list apply for us people outside the US? :/
     
  4. Defeat

    Defeat GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO

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    It doesn't apply to anyone right now, except the people who made it. Also #10 seems kind of odd since that has been around forever.
     
  5. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    I have a ton of games that require the CD/DVD in the drive, despite it being installed.
     
  6. 213

    213 New Member

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    As unpopular as this is going to be, I feel that a few of these are a bit overly demanding. Most though, hit the nail right on the head.

    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

    At least store credit would keep me happy. I mean if I was honestly intending to spend money on a game, then it was disposable income to begin with, and as much as I loathe chain retailers, even I know an easily scammable system when I see one.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

    I couldn't agree more with this if a gun was put to my head while standing on a block of ice with a car battery hooked up to my man-junk. I'm counting on my PC alone here, 4 potentially brilliant and engrossing games what would have led me to follow a franchise into the gates of Hell itself,..but alas they are all unfinished and thus bug ridden and frustrating to no end.


    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

    Totally agree. Even if a game is reasonably finished and functions well, any kind of updates or bug fixes are welcome. To me they're only "expected" up to a certain point though.


    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.


    As a parent who occasionally has to choose between internet for a given month, and something like car repairs or other bills etc.. I get truly annoyed when during really boring months I'm not able to play certain single player games that I've bought and paid for already and just haven't had time to finish.

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    YES. Publishers, please stop trying to snowball me into thinking that you (or rather the development team you're yelling and screaming about to all that will listen) have somehow managed to squeeze true to life AI, per pixel real time rendered bump mapping, cyclical dynamic lighting, and a pie baked to perfection during every 20 minutes of gameplay into a game that supposedly will run on my old beta VCR. It's gotten to where I only look at Recommended Requirements as minimum now, and in some cases even that has turned out to be frustrating.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

    Seriously. FFS it's starting to get to where I'd not be surprised to see adware trying to install when I pop a disc in my drive now.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

    I'd like to see Publishers who continue to profit from games months and years after developers stop getting a nickel, be held liable to pay for things like this.

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

    This is still a touchy subject for me, because no one has found a safe, reliable way to ensure any copy protection on a media source that needs to function on such a large array of hardware. :( This is one case where I think case-by-case gamers can show what they will tolerate and what they won't.
    If it's got too intrusive of a copy protection on it, or it goes above your tolerance level making install or play difficult, return it for a refund or store credit. I can't blame developers (much) for having a hard time with such a technically futile but still necessary problem that needs to be solved.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

    Totally agree. See Number 4. My single player games are supposed to be moddable, too, and I don't want forced updates and patches stoppingme from enjoying 3rd party content once I've gotten bored with the vanilla version of the game.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

    I'm ok with the game requiring a CD for the first couple patches or so. After a few buying seasons have gone by, say 6 months or so, maybe a year for a really heavy seller or huge hit, I'd think the publishers should let up off the few dollars they'll scrape up from the hard work they stopped paying the developers for months ago and let us just put our discs away completely.
     
  7. Enfluence

    Enfluence I kinda like UT3.

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    I agree with #10 most.
     
  8. iCQ

    iCQ Softice/MASM reverse engineer

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    g1

    A good start :)... i didnt know gamers wanted any rights (the developer)!
     
  9. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    Where is the right to sell games you no longer want play?
     
  10. Severin

    Severin New Member

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    That merits an OMFG well said ! (Shame the PCGA didn't come out with something like this)

    I may even go out and buy Space Siege for that. (Sins is already on my shopping list)

    Its about time the industry woke up to the fact that screwing your customers is not a good long term business plan.
     
  11. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Don't forget GPG's Demigod! ;)
     
  12. Severin

    Severin New Member

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    Demigod is looking really nice from the pics and publicity, hope they make a good job of it.
     
  13. `Ghost`

    `Ghost` 'Spookje'

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    List: Amen
     
  14. dragonfliet

    dragonfliet I write stuffs

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    It's a cute list. I honestly only agree with #s: 1,2,6,7,8,9

    I mean, do I think we have a "right" to not be very mildly inconvenienced to not have to put a disk in a drive? How lazy can you be? I think also that developers have a right to use non-intrusive DRM to protect their games, so having Steam run doesn't bother me at all. It has a VERY minimal impact on performance and it helps them. I can live with that.

    While it would be nice if everygame were complete as launched, completely bug-free, that's never going to happen. The sheer complexity of things dictates that. On that note, I also don't think a game has to ever provide anything after release other than major bug-fixes. If they DO update, ala TF2, then I'm very happy, but the game as launched is what I'm buying, they don't owe anyone anything afterward.

    Also, while I agree with 5, that it should run adequately on minimum settings, I think part of the problem is that people have different ideas of what adequate means. I think that if it runs on lowest settings at 800x600, that is adequate. Is it optimal? no, but that's why there are recommended settings. I honestly haven't played a single game that I had the settings for that I couldn't run at least with those settings.

    ~Jason
     
  15. dub

    dub

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    Indeed and that is something that annoys the hell out of me too. I download illegal no-cd's to get my games to run without the DVD (if I play the game frequently) and I shouldn't have to do that.
    It doesn't really stop any piracy making users put it in the game disk and only inconveniences the paying customer.
    Plus half the fun of having a game on your PC is precisely for the reason of enjoying it's perks such as huge HDD's.

    As a DRM it's totally useless as mentioned above, legit users download cracks or no-cd's made by the non-legit users.
    If someone can crack an entire digital protection system then making the game not use the DVD is not even going to be a challenge.
    Most cracked games don't need a DVD to play so who is this even for?

    The game is on my damn drive already, why add another layer just to make something simple, more complicated.

    And I am that lazy, that I find it a chore finding my game disks.

    Games that don't require the disk to play like UT seem to work out just fine. The most efficient way of protecting games I can see is online keys. Stops non-legit customers playing online at least... and you'll never be able to stop someone cracking the game to play offline though.

    And finally, virtually ever game that has required me to use the bloody game disk to play - has resulted in the game disk getting mashed. Games that don't require the DVD to play just last longer, plain and simple.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2008
  16. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Here's how lazy I can be. When I want to play a game, I scan through the list of games I have installed and if it requires a disk in the tray - and that disk is not already in the tray - then I skip over it and continue to scan through the list. I don't have enough room on my desktop to store dozens of boxes of games and it's a mild annoyance to have to open up the cabinet, hunt down the game, swap out the game in the tray, and put away the unused disk.

    I can understand it being a requirement for a few months, but why should I have to continue to hunt down disks for a year old game, when all the files I need to play it are right there on my HDD?
     
  17. UnrealGrrl

    UnrealGrrl Enemy flag carrier is Her!

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    well a nice idea but a little presumptous on a few points there...

    the right to return a game that doesnt work on your computer?!?! give me a break... im no computer genius, have built most of my own computers (with lotsa help) and have never had a game not run on my machines or never had one i couldnt get to work.

    ppl are so entitled these days its getting ridiculous.

    most bigbix stores have pretty liberal return policies that people abuse the hell out of anyway...

    not require the CD/DVD in the drive? who the f*%^ cares? jeez...

    the right to redownload? wth? come on already. if i break a record, cd or dvd or my player ruins it, can i go get a free copy of that movie or music? or how about if my book falls in the ppl, do i go to bookstore and demand a new one? or wait, im entitled to the directors cut or expanded edition FREE right? i paid for it once a few years ago... if theres an update, sure, but the whole thing? who are these ppl?

    ok wait, am i missing the point, is this article satire? i need more coffee.


    ps. not installing hidden drivers or anything should be for all software, not just games.
     
  18. N1ghtmare

    N1ghtmare Sweet Dreams

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    I had GoW for my PC not work, and when I went back to circuit city they would not refund but only give me a new copy. I ended up installing it on my brothers laptop, but he isnt around most of the time.
     
  19. 16MentalTempest

    16MentalTempest Out to lunch.

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    I agree completely with #4 and #6. #1 and #8 are kinda touchy though. As stated previously, return policies are abused, but if the companies didn't offer them, than that means that there is no policy to abuse, and thus they would lose their 'abusive' fanbase, right? (sarcasm). The only reason #8 is on this list is because of the idiots who commit piracy and all that crap. And rule #10 :hmm: I agree that it's much more convenient to play the game without the disc (e.g. UT99), but I don't think its that bad of an ordeal to use the disc to start up. I've had more games that require the disc than games that don't, and either way I don't care as long as the game is good. Besides, someone said something about the disc getting broken. Well, if you're storing your discs properly, then you shouldn't have any problems ;). Besides, you play console games all the time by inserting the disc. Should PS3, 360, and Wii start storing games on the hard drive so you don't have to use the game disc?
     
  20. Severin

    Severin New Member

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