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Franchi SPAS-12

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by Domino, Jul 15, 2001.

  1. St0rmcaller

    St0rmcaller [AFA]'s unoffical godfather

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    How in the hell did that happen? The shells are usually ejected and hit the deck about 6-8 ft to your right.
     
  2. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    It was on firing range... basically a long concrete shack with one of the long walls open so it forms 12 firing positions - and if you're anywhere but on the left edge, you're in danger of that happening.

    Edit: Oh, and it almost happened to me once too, the casing hit my right shoulder when I was firing from prone position (I'm a leftie and the M16I'm issued doesn't have a case deflector, grrr).
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2001
  3. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    That's one of the improvments made on the C7 it does have a case deflector for those lefties amongst us :D
     
  4. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    long live the lefties!

    will the F2000 be issued to the french army to replace the FAMAS?
     
  5. OICW

    OICW Reason & Logic > Religion

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    Hehe you guys are so wierd at times. "Oh I don't want to get my face scorched"

    If looks (and especially your health) are that important, then what the hell are you doing in the military? :D
     
  6. perrin98

    perrin98 New Member

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    Long live canadian-modified weapons!
     
  7. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    OICW, you try maintaining aim with your rifle ejecting a stream of hot casings right into your face from a range of ceveral centimeters.

    The_Fur, case deflector isn't just a feature of C7, it's present on all M16A2 and later upper recievers, as well as on later series of M16A1 upper recievers - it's just that due to IDF lacking funds, we're still using a lot of M16A1s that remember Vietnam.

    asmodeus: I actually doubt F2000 will be issued to regular infantry in any near future. Most of the potential customers are already tied up with their own rifles - french have FA MAS, austrians the AUG, germans the G36, british the L85/86, israelis are adopting Tavor right now, US is tied up in the OICW program, russians aren't in any shape to buy new high-tech weapons... this leaves less significant countries, like Canada, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Norvegia, Finland, South Korea, Japan, Singapour, etc, but they might be quite unwilling to cough up large sums of money to re-fit their armies, as the whole army business isn't as high priority for them.

    However, what I don't doubt, is that F2000 will be adopted by spec-ops units, and quickly. It has no typical disadvantages of bullpup weapons, and at the same time, has all their advantages - and then some more. Also, it MIGHT turn up to be serving along with the OICW in US armed forces, F2000 being the grunt's rifle, while OICW would be deployed at squad or platoon level for fire support.
     
  8. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

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    Singapore is trading in it's M16s for the SAR-21.
    Spain has made Purchases of the G36.
    And Sweden is currently using the AK-5 (FN-FNC). I'm not sure if they're looking for a replacement though.

    BTW
    I thought the Tavor wasn't going to be adopted by the IDF because it was cheaper to use foriegn aid to buy M16s and M4s?
     
  9. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    Heard FNC was trash... dunno (please don't confuse it with CANADIAN FNC which is FAL, and a good rifle as long as you keep it away from sand).

    Tavor is currently entering service with paratroopers brigade, and I heard they are going to give it to armored corps as well. It's not as much as the actual usefulness of it as the strong political pressure to adopt it.
     
  10. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    Russians are replacing their AK74's with the AN94 and OC14.
     
  11. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    Several corrections to that.

    1) AK-74 never fully entered service in the first place, AKM is still used because of the low performance of the 5.45x39mm round.
    2) They WANT TO replace AKs with AN-94s for regular troops and OC-14s for spec-ops, but lack the money to buy them in sufficient numbers, as both of those are expensive (if I remember correctly, a single AN-94 costs about the same as 4 AK-74s).
     
  12. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    then again a AK74 only costs a few bucks. And the AK74 did indeed enter full service the 5.45 does not have low performance, in fact it wounds a lot more then the 7,62x39 because it tumbles a LOT (due to the semi-holow nose).
     
  13. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    Yes, it is very dangerous against soft targets due to the hydrostatic shock caused by tumbling, but that's about all it is good for. It can't penetrate for crap, and it is VERY unstable, very susceptible to crosswind and even tree leaves push it off trajectory.
     
  14. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    that is the little thing that might get me to enroll;)
     
  15. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    Gholam I got my info from somebody who has actually used it in combat and I have not heard him complain about it.
     
  16. OICW

    OICW Reason & Logic > Religion

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    well, I'm very, very pissed off at the Australian army. why? for some reason, they decided to equip our soldiers with the Steyr AUG assault rifle.

    This is very old news, you probably know that off Jaunty or another Aussie.

    But still, what a ****ed up decision. Ask Shakken for the actual reasons why he hates it and he'll tell you. Here's what he told me a few months ago (it may be slightly inaccurate though due to the time period)

    The Steyr AUG has no hands off confidence in the saftey. It's a push-button safety, so that if you run your thumb over it to check it the safety goes on/off. You can't get it that well for the reason. also, in order to re-engage the safety, you have to turn the whole weapon to one side and push it.

    Plus the sights on it are appalling. In CQB you might not need them too much but it's nice having them.

    The AUG's need at least 400mm of eye-relief, which is alright for a pistol but not for an assault rifle.

    Finally the trigger guard's receiver is curved so that when you put your finger againmst it, it is moved back gradually due to the curve and nature and onto the trigger. That explains the high rate of ND/ ADs for Australian soldiers using them. and the safety's flaws as well.

    Shakken has said that he thinks that the AUG is a very good rifle, but it has some basic flaws that shouldn't have gone past the design stage.
     
  17. c+k|nEVeRmOre

    c+k|nEVeRmOre ~A.K.A. wesley_sniper~

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    LOL...I have heard this same argument from time to time in regard to 5.56NATO rounds...only then the plant material usually mentioned was <i>a blade of grass</i>. Does anyone have any hard facts that either a blade of grass or a tree leaf would knock either of these rounds for a loop? I am tired of reading arguments based on hearsay with no factual evidence. Give me the proof.
     
  18. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    M196 round can't penetrate for crap either, that's why they adopted M855 (SS109). As for 5.45x39, I suppose there IS a reason actual soldiers in the field often prefer AKMs over AK-74s. Kalashnikov himself opposes this round from the very first time the idea was brought up.
     
  19. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    The new 62-63 grain 5.56x45mm rounds have very good wind bucking performance.

    It's maximum effective range from a 20 inch barrel is in the range of 550 meters.

    And the standard Russian 5.45x39mm ball round has a steel core and guilding metal jacket. It has VERY good penetration against most armor types. It's tumbling characterteristics are also excellent, giving it good lethality.
     
  20. c+k|nEVeRmOre

    c+k|nEVeRmOre ~A.K.A. wesley_sniper~

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    Yes, but does anyone have any semblance of factual information about folliage interfering with the trajectory of either of those two rounds. I was not asking about the penetration :p
     

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