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Force snipers to be snipers.

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by Chronic, Nov 18, 2001.

?

Sniper gun limitation poll:

  1. Yes, limit the types of secondary weapons that snipers can use.

    34 vote(s)
    64.2%
  2. No, don't limit any weapons.

    19 vote(s)
    35.8%
  1. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    oh, I see. I wish it were that easy :D
     
  2. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    :D

    You are our hope then. Be in your cave, yurch. :p
     
  3. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    if possible, there should be a few milliseconds for trigger weight simmed into all the weapons imo.
    different lengths for different weapons depending on trigger type and current shooting mode (accuracy 'slow and smooth', cqb'quick tap', or standard trigger pull)

    course, that might be a bit too much coding to do for a mod.

    I prefer the "hold accuracy to steady, then hold trigger and wait to fire" system. if anything goes wrong, I could just release either key and stop the shot from going off.
    and it dosent interfere with regular cqb shooting.
     
  4. Keganator

    Keganator White as Snow Moderator

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    Yeah...what if you decide you didn't want to fire after you pressed down the right button? How could you cancel it in a natural way?
     
  5. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Yeah, but then people can sit around with the trigger fully pulled, and let loose an accurate shot whenever. Remember when you pull the trigger...
    The gun goes off!

    edit: keg, you let go of alt-fire.
     
  6. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    ?
    I think youve got me wrong there.
    just cause their aim is steady dosent remove the delay from pulling the trigger fully.

    Im not sure if by that you mean theres some kinda half pull on a real sniper rifle.
    from what I understand, the trigger on an accuracy weapon is very light so not to interfere with the shooters aim.
     
  7. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    nm. We're reading eachother wrong there.
     
  8. Keganator

    Keganator White as Snow Moderator

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    Ahh...I'm starting to see it here... No more 'steadying until target in sight' type of a deal. Hmm...
     
  9. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    I've got an idea.

    Why we don't have to concentrate ( INF hold breathe ) before we fire our guns except for scoped weapons??

    From my real life experience, it just have to take the same amount of time ( or even longer ) for you to prepare an accurate shot with an M16. The "iron sights alignment" problem!

    You know, in real life, reflex sights, inner-red-dot sights, low-powered scopes are all made for ARs and SMGs and even pistols to make a quicker target acqusition and a quicker aim, because they help the alignment be done more quickly.

    In game iron sights are just another form of crosshairs. Why not make the hold_alt_fire works as the "alignment" for non-scoped weapons?

    Basically I have this complaint because the horizontal "8" figured wave is implemented weirdly for scoped weapons and it almost doesn't affect non-scoped weapons in game. That day I tried a scoped rifle in an air-gun store, and it didn't wave like that. If that wave is to represent the alignment of gunsights, it should be applied to all other guns as well.

    To be more detailed, yurch even noticed that the "alignment" wave doesn't work well for different magnifying-power. And the fact that guns' actual line-of-fire doesn't wave along with the sights. These all must be changed if we are talking about "real aim" here ( not yurch's RealAim mutator ).
     
  10. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    alt fire is used to stop the waving around. I know its implemented wrong, with the floating backsight and all, but the idea is basically there.
    I, and most of the "iron sights snipers" all use the breath function regularly.
     
  11. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    Yeah, yurch, you just get exactly the point!

    Their rear-sight waves but their front-sight doesn't move much, and basically in INF you just determine your aim by the front-sight -- simply put, the waving doesn't affect the aim!

    In real life, if your rear-sight waves and your front-sight doesn't move, you just have the "alignment" problem!

    I know you guys playing realistically would spend time holding your alt_fire_button, but that's you guys who want to play it realistically. Basically holding alt_fire_button is meaningless for non-scoped weapons in game. Don't you feel sad when you do it right but it is actually meaningless?
     
  12. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    I wouldent say its meaningless.

    I wish it did more, but you can see the effect on any target 100m away or greater.
    also, on weapons like the h&k nade launcher, the movement from breathing is very pronounced. using the steady key allows a slightly more accurate aim (well, accurate as nades go anyways :p )

    *cough*INSERTplugFORadjustableSITEShere*cough*

    one note I would like to make though.
    making the job of a sniper harder by including things like ballistics and aiming details is all well and good. but only so long as we get more oppertunities with more stable targets.
    I dont wanna have to relive the current bunney hunt scenario with a difficult to use rifle.

    [err, something I just thought of... weve made a long wish list for trigger details and proper bullet trajectory, but what about bullet speed? the travel seems almost instantanious, but shouldent it take a measurable split second to arrive at its target if your making a 500m shot?]
     
  13. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    If you compare scoped weapons and non-scoped weapons in game, you'll find that the waving affects scoped weapons much more than it affects non-scoped ones. For example, my lovely AKMSU, its front-sight is so steady that the first shot just can't miss ( the second shot and afterwards are affected by recoil so I can't be 100% sure where they will hit ).

    And basically if guns are not aligned, they can't hit any sxxx ...... let alone a 100m target; a very small angular error can introduce a very large linear error after a long range.

    Currently I don't think we have to worry about targets beyond 300m. There's no such maps anyway. The only one in which you can encounter a 300m target I've played recently is DM-INF-MiddleOfNowhere_V040.

    If you try a real scope, you'll find the scopes in INF are not like real ones. The reticle, the FOV, the magnifying power, the zoom ...... they all leave something to be disired. Long range weapon simulation is a big challenge in itself ( and even cannot be done with UT engine ). Besides, long range weapon is not everything. The whole game also consists of lots of other factors to be improved.

    For the original topic of this thread "Force snipers to be snipers," I would like to say, if realistic penalties are implemented, there won't be any problem. You don't have to force it.
     
  14. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    I think it all boils down to the fact that the breathing system doesn't effect the pointing of the gun. Fix that and I am sure things will get better.
     
  15. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    I am aware of that, but the AKMSU's front sight just doesn't move at all without the need to hold breathe. So even if that problem is fixed, you still don't have to hold breathe when shoot an AKMSU, and you basically don't have to hold breathe when shoot any other non-scoped weapon -- the M16's front sight waves the most obviously, I think, but it is still only within about 3 pixels. And that area is just smaller than the waving area for scoped weapons.

    I hope the breathing ( waving ) can eventually be implemented as the "sight alignment ( concentration )" for every gun.
     
  16. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    I think its acutally farther along the lines of the camera revolving around the gun that is fixed in space. Technically, no part of the gun moves at all.
     
  17. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    Anyway, I hope non-scoped weapons should be prepared for accurate shots, too.

    To be more clear, the scope/non-scope should ONLY affect what you SEE, and should NOT affect your aiming at all.
     
  18. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    They dont. Right now the hold breath is theoretically useless for all weapons, scoped or not.
    I hope to address this in ra later... of course, but I am not going to have time now.
     
  19. JamesT

    JamesT sniper apprentice

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    I know the line-of-fire is in fact fixed in game. But I doubt there will be anyone who really make some mark on the monitor to shoot scoped weapons without holding breathe. :p
     
  20. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    If I alt-tab out of inf, a mouse cursor or cross will appear directly at the correct spot.
    I don't use it, of course - but it does amplify the feeling that inf's shooting is dissapointingly point-and-click.
     

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