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Epic commitment to UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by BawaBawa, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    I agree with that, except for the part about encompassing all FPS in your argument. I think the problem is more centrally located with fast-paced sci-fi shooters. H3 did remarkably well, saleswise, but it is nowhere near as fast as UT3. I think it's time we UT lovers face the fact that even many of our own "kind" have relented to slower shooters and other lesser games than UT. Maybe it's a sign of old age. Or something.
     
  2. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Thats still pure speculation though just as my comment, if Epic does do a UE3.5 theres no guarantee's so its a big gamble especially with the reception UT3 got. Now you can point out everything wrong with the game but all of that might not be the reason for the low player counts, again people are just speculating.

    Epic could make the best game/expansion on earth and people would still find something wrong with it and still be in here on the forums as they are with UT3.

    Nothing Epic can do will make me enjoy UT3 any less, well except for declare it obsolete by releasing another UT in a hurry. Not only that but people might not like the new one, just like with UT2k4 and UT, it'll fragment an already fragmented community beyond recognition not that, that hasnt already happened.

    Certainly a post release demo would have been the go and shoulda been out by now but Epic seems content to patch UT3 on both PS3 and PC while working on all this "exclusive" content for 360. Not only that but a sticky on the tech&trouble shooting would have gone a long way to help people actually get some things fixed early on, its too late now to fix that really although it can be done it wont have the impact it would have.

    I still believe skillgap and lack of good pinging servers has alot to do with online player counts, its by no means dead, we just arnt seeing all the players online.
     
  3. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    It does look like they fixed that bug since the last time this came up.

    Still, I'd love to see how you prove that any of those people are not bots without personally going into each server and verifying.
    I don't think it's good AT ALL. It's simply a response to all the idiots claiming "UT2004 has more players than UT3" which is ridiculous statement (although, once Gamespy goes down, it does, which is ridiculously often compared to every previous UT game). I'm not happy about where UT3 is at all, and I think there are several causes, least of which should be the UI. But it has been sensationalized so much that it's almost impossible to search for UT3 on Google without reading some crap about the "terrible UI".
     
  4. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Speculation? there is nothing esoteric or even remotely vague about this issue, this very forum is bursting at the seams with usefull data, as are any gaming site or forum where UT3 gets discussed, people are constalty stating what they see wrong with the game and why they are not playing it, and have been ever since it hit the shelves, and the reasons are all fairly uniform, they have to do with the game beeing released too early, with too little content and options, the game is viewed as unpolished, unfinished and buggy.

    People love to dismiss this though, and call it "whining" and "beating a dead horse", but the fact is that UT3 is not popular, the server browser is a ghost town, and online numbers seem to be in a constant decline ever since the game hit the stores, so arguing about it is futile! it doesen't matter if you aree with the "whiners" or not, or how much you personally enjoy UT3, and find its flaws minor and trivial, apparently the popular viewpoint is that they are a big problem, and if people dont like it they wont play it, and if nobody plays it, then even the people who do like it will be forced to stop playing, because there's nobody there to play with.

    Its a downwards spiral, people get sick and tired of empty servers, allways have, it has killed good games and mods countless times, if they cant find good games they will stop playing, this will leave more empty servers and more people will stop playing because they cant find servers.. that is what's going on right now!


    The good news is that this can be fixed, if you look at peoples complaints about UT3, the vast majority of them are things that can be added with patches and bonus packs, the game can absolutely be salvaged!
    The bad new is that it will take time, alot of time, and in that time UT3 is going to be in real hot water, not that it isen't allready, but things wont get better on their own, and small patches here and there are unlikely to get peoples attention and get them back on thouse servers.

    The game needs a big shot in the arm, it needs a bunch of fixes, and a bunch of extra content, and when that is finally done, it needs publicity! people need to know that big things have happened and that they should give it another chance now.
    How do you do that? an UT3.5 is one option, but you could also release a huge "free expansion pack", give it a ton of adverticement, make a "Bonus re-release deal pack" on Steam, and release a new and much better demo.
    That'll grab some attention! and it might just turn things around, and create a new hype and new positive word of mouth.

    But the important thing here is that the game must be bigger and better before anything like that is done, or it will just spread more negative feedback, UT3 v1.2 has been played, and subsequently rejected by countless people, its just not ready yet.


    Its UT2003 all over again, and it sucks, but that is just how it is.
     
  5. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Right now the server browser is a ghost town courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Gamespy. :mad:
     
  6. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Ugh.. tell me about it! i finally got UT3 working on my system, it seems like the crashes are fixed now, but guess what, in my reinstall my Gamespy ID got killed somehow, and i cannot log in.. just friggen great, and i only have one eMail account, so making a new one will require getting a Hotmail account *shudders*.

    We really could have done without this crap!
     
  7. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    i ruv ew shaggy

    i luv u 2 scoob
     
  8. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    I love how you just dimiss everything I say because some vocal majority "has" to be right. Sure theres issues but the least of which are the ones are people are most vocal about... You know why?

    Perhaps its because people boot the game once or twice and dont even get down to the nitty gritty problems which are actually more of an issue that what 75% of the complaints Ive heard are.

    My point about enjoying the game is perhaps one of the biggest ones and you shrug it off like my point was my enjoyment of a game, not the fact that Epic are improving the game. Which was the main point at hand, Epic cant go anywhere but up from here right? You get it now? or you still wearing your jade goggles!

    If you think your getting anywhere near UT2k4's content levels soon you are in for a big shock, even Epic took 3 years getting all the content for UT3 together so the next one will be out in... 2010? at the earliest. **** just takes time hey, why not go do some modding yourself if 40 maps and all the characters etc arnt enough for you. I'll agree the game needs players online but more content alone isnt going to do that.

    It is speculation because while you scream bloody murder there is alot of people out there enjoying the game, but noooo thats impossible right? The thought of an unvocal majority playing the game offline isnt even on the radar, well lets take some real stats from Epic themselves for 2k4 and say that 50% of players didnt take 2k4 online. If that trend continued in UT3, perhaps even went up to 75% or more is it that much harder to believe?

    I'll agree the game could use fixes but hows about actually contributing some useful discussion on problems that are "unknown" instead of using this imaginary army to back you up! Theres about 20-50 people spamming the same god damn **** 1000's of times, its not tens of thousands of people making 1 post!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  9. Poker

    Poker Anus Retentus

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    This is obvious, but lest we forget, regardless of the cause, if servers weren't empty then the dozens of loose ends in UT3 would be more easily excusable.

    But of course they are empty. Not surprisingly we want to understand why, and the first logical places to look are the numerous deficiencies the game still has ... hence the discussion ad nauseum.

    That UT3 is even being compared to UT2004 at all should be tragic enough of a fact to end the discussion, lol.

    It's ... not? I sort of thought that is exactly what we aspire to achieve. My car is nicer than the one my parents owned at my age; my house is nicer than my parents' house was; bubble markets aside, and inflation adjusted, they do cost about the same. Advancement in technology makes nice stuff more reproduceable and therefore cheaper; and likewise in software, you're supposed to build stuff so you don't have to build it again later. In UT3 they failed to incorporate an astonishing amount of fairly simple features that should have been boilerplate after having built them into UT2004. For godsakes they could have just copied the basic UI shell from 2k4 and it'd have been better than this eviscerated stinkhole.

    Individually they don't; however, each missing feature (and the list is much longer) does make the game less enjoyable at least to a small degree. String together a few dozen of these deficiencies, as they've managed to do with UT3, and collectively you've got at best a less playable game, and dependent on a person's opinion and ability to manage frustration, possibly an "unplayable" one.

    "Unplayable" does not necessarily mean "broken". Something can technically work but be a pain as far as usability. "Un-stomach-able" is more the meaning people are going for—regardless, however, the result is the same: the game doesn't get played.

    How many raised hands are actually asking for a color depth option?

    fwiw I prefer weapon bob off and so do thousands (well, nowadays maybe hundreds if we're lucky) of others.

    To the general point, however, there are still several options that could stand to have been included in the GUI—Dynamic Lighting is one example—and even if it were true that all those "old" features were no longer needed, there are still plenty more features introduced with UE3 that absolutely positively should have been made easily accessible: Motion Blur, Bloom, Depth of Field, and more.
    Ok ... haven't seen self-pwnage like that in quite awhile ... if "sux" threads drive away people who would have otherwise purchased the game, how is that not putting pressure on Epic?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  10. Hedge-o-Matic

    Hedge-o-Matic New Member

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    Well, the trees do look awesome, so I hope Epic hooks up with a dedicated UI developer, and a professional documentation developer. This would address most of the unfinished/unpolished/tacked-on feel surrounding the very solid UT3 gameplay.

    And maybe a professional PR team, and an advertising firm. Epic is no longer feeling the love from the community as a whole, and they're not handling it too well. This cycle needs to be broken.
     
  11. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

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    Phew. ;)

    No, you are reading things into what I said. I said it had to be better, not a clone with bonus material. Removing popular features is not a way to make things better.

    Absolutely, that's how it works and hopefully software developers will catch up one day.

    If we continue with the car analogy, with your reasoning people should'nt care if the doors of the car they just bought fell off on a regular basis, there was no adjustments to the seat and it had no head lights etc. Not as long as the engine starts most of the time and the car can take them from A to B.

    I don't question your amount of brain (^^), but I would say that a majority of the online players find it pretty important to be able to turn off bob, landing view shakes and gore for example. I know it was the first thing I did at least. Why? Because I like it that way. And this is still in UT3 (by ini tweaking) so no biggie. The point is that people had gotten used to a highly configurable UT, when it got nerfed these people felt ripped off. A setting might seem insignificant for you but still be a big deal for someone else, the locked FOV for example was the first thing that really pissed me off when I bought the game. It made the game unplayable on my new wide screen, not that it was Impossible to play, but impossible for me to enjoy.

    No, but hearing and doing is 2 different things. Until they do something radical and show that they really want to clean up the mess the whining will continue. Im more worried about the silence and the lack of praise then the bitching.

    And I'm not an angry guy either, so feel free to slam my opinions. ;)
     
  12. p3rplx3d

    p3rplx3d in the desert

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    being a long time ctf fan since the 99 days, seeing 3 people playing ut3ctf last night was quite depressing. :(

    personally, I think it comes down to a few things.

    hardcore PC FPS gamers (and long time UT fans) feel a bit betrayed I think. because it seems like they ported a consol UI for the PC.

    second, people love the sniper rifle and it is such an...unfun weapon. i know that may sound stupid, but I cant help thinking about it.

    third, it takes a pretty good rig to run it. maybe people are justnot upgrading or maybe the fact that UT3 doesnt feel "new" and seems to me anyway was built for the 99 crowd. people just dont feel the need to upgrade.

    forth, maybe it's the reality tv generation (like more reality based games like cod4)

    fifth, there is no tactical stuff in UT3. its just a kill as many as possible game. with so much team based tactical stuff out there. maybe UT3 is just boring to them compared to other high end PC games.
     
  13. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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    Well I doubt they're working on one right now, with GoW2 coming out soon, and UT3 not yet released for xbox. The only way we'd get a new UT soon is if they were working on UT3.5. I don't see why they'd be working on an expansion for a game that hasn't even been released on all of it's projected platforms yet. Regardless, I really hope that isn't the case. I don't even think a 2k4-esque upgrade would be able to revive this game, to be honest. Just let this game be, and work on a whole new one from the ground up, IMO.

    Which makes me hope Epic will give assault a chance in the next game they do. Even domination. You'd think that a tactical, team-based gametype would be a good thing to include nowadays.

    And team-based gametypes can work without vehicles (hint: get rid of VCTF, it's boring) :)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  14. Draco73

    Draco73 New Member

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    +1 to all of this

    actually you are wrong in saying this. it would not take anywhere near 3 years for epic to boost there map count by a considerable amount as they did with 2k4. it may take 3 years to completely reinvent the game, but to just boost the content and maps as they did from 2k3-2k4 then it would not take much effort at all. reason for this is because epic barely made any of the new maps that came with 2k4 that was not already in 2k3. most of them were user made maps that were "bought/contracted" by epic and packaged up with 2k4. so all epic would have to do is go find the best 20+ UT3 maps made within the first year of the games release and or the 20+ best mappers, and do the same thing all over again, and bingo, you just added a crap load of maps to your game which you could advertise without taking any in house resources or using any of "epics man power" to personally do it.

    its exactly what they did for 2k4, and it could easily be done for UT3.

    then just imagine a year down the road, they re released the game as "UT3.5 or UT4" using the same exact tactics they did from 2k3 to 2k4. they could easily have advertisement lines in the ball park of "25 brand new exciting maps, 5 brand new never before seen vehicles, 15 new characters with the re introduction of Malcolm and Xan, and a complete redesign of the UI" if you honestly don't think that will catch a lot of peoples attention, and entice a lot of people to buy this game and give it a 2nd go like they did for 2k4, well then you don't have your head on straight.
     
  15. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    I'd like to see where you get your info. All sources point to this being very obviously true, yet here we are again with you and only you arguing the complete opposite.

    I'm starting to think you do it just because. Like playing devil's advocate is hilarious to you even if you have nothing to back up any of your claims.

    You claim GM counts anything and everything for UT2004 yet at the same time you argue that it's not counting anything and everything for UT3. Which one is it?

    Or maybe it's both because that would just be so convenient for your argument, right?

    Regardless, whether you use GS or GM, both report that UT2004 has about 4-8x the players of UT3. You can't claim that one is accurate for one game and then not accurate for another; that's not how it works.

    What's going to happen when UT3 comes out on the 360? Are you going to argue the numbers then too when it fails miserably in comparison to CoD4? CoD4's getting 1.3 million players per day through Xbox Live! That's more than Halo 3. :eek:

    And according to Xfire stats, CoD4 on PC is getting nearly as much play time as WoW. No game's really come close to that until now. D:
     
  16. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    *snooooooze*
     
  17. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Well, you have obviously misunderstood what i said, and this post reads like a knee-jerk reaction, fact is, we actually agree on a great many things you and i, and i am no more happy about any of this than you are.

    My point is very simple, no game has ever survived not getting played, this is automatic death for any game, and especially online games are vulnerable, thats pretty self evident yeah?

    It is simply about numbers, if there are not enough players to go around, then the game does not get played, and no players means death, many good games have suffered this fate, for one reason or another, but when it happens, its like a cancer, the problem fuels itself, like a downwards spiral, and death is not far behind, unless you take very drastic and very smart steps twords fixing it.

    Thus, it really does not matter how much a dedicated fanbase loves a game, if there is too few of them, and they cannot attract more, the game will slowly but surely die out.
    And UT3 does not have wide appeal, this much is apparent by the player counts, and if you look at what people have of complaints about UT3, it is thankfully not the formula that is wrong, but the state of the game.
    This is good news my freind! it means that UT3 can still have a shot at it! but it will take work.

    But i must correct you when you say this: "the nitty gritty problems which are actually more of an issue that what 75% of the complaints Ive heard are", if so many people sees thease things as a big problem, big enough that they apparently wont even bother playing the game, then they BECOME a big problem, and it doesen't matter if you or i find them trivial or unimportant, they have become important! because they are obviously seen as important by a great many people, who choose not to give UT3 a chance as a result.
    Thus, if UT3 is to have a chance, they absolutely must be addressed, or all the people who feels they are a big issue wont get into UT3.

    Again, it is a simple matter of numbers, we need numbers! so we cannot, by any means, afford to turn our backs on thease issues that are apparently preventing many people from getting into UT3, even if we do find them trivial, it doesen't matter, all thease people feel it is important, and we need them abord the UT3 train.

    And trust me, i know all too well how much it sucks to be part of the minority, i'm a big realism freak, and we are a rare breed indeed, nobody makes games for thouse of us who feel CoD and MoH is too unrealistic, and when a rare gem actually does emerge, too few people play them, and it sucks! but majority rules, and i have had to come to terms with that, you will too.

    Now you are just not reading what i wrote, i specifically stressed the point that thease fixes and additions will take time!

    I think you are getting a bit emotional about this, i did not intend my post as an attack in any way, i am simply looking at the big picture here, but it just so happens that the big picture is not a very pretty one.. not unless something smart, and big is done to turn things around.

    The thing is, the amount of content in itself seems to be a small issue, even all the "whiners", though they where not thrilled about it, could deal with that at large, because we all know content can be added, and this is the sort of things people hoped to see in bonus packs.
    The real problem is a compounded one, it is that as a whole, UT3 just seems rushed in allmost all areas, and there is so much that must be fixed before we can even think about adding content and enjoying it, and that seems to be where the film snaps for people, thats where they write it off and say "fix it or i aint playing it".
    We're 2 patches in now, but far from enough has happened, it'll take more to win back hearts and minds.

    And mods wont cut it, if people have to reinstall, patch, and go find a bunch of user created mods to make the game not seem broken, well.. they wont, this stuff needs to be official.

    It is not speculation, read what people say about UT3, its all right here in black and white, people have been very vocal about what they see as problems and what they want fixed, extremely so i think we can say.

    And yes, obviously people do play UT3, i have never disputed that, again this seems like an emotional knee jerk.. but how many? player counts where dissapointing from the very start, and they have declined ever since, currently it is looking rather grim, and even a Steam release and a big price reduction has not fixed this, and if the trend continues, and it might very well, the game will die, even you wont enjoy UT3 if you have nobody to play with.

    Hence it is well overdue to start looking at how to fix this, instead of burrying our heads in the sand and saying "but UT3 is a great game, its just fine!", because apparently, not enough people feel that way.

    And mind you, i myself am an Offline player, so then you might ask, why should i care about online numbers? because i know all too well that this is the pulse of an MP shooter, if this side of the game fails, the offline portion does aswell, because people will abandon it, they will stop making mods and move on, and thus i have every reason to care, its a symbiotic releationship, and if the host dies so do i.

    Unknown problems are not what's holding UT3 back, they are all very well known, and in our faces, now they just need to be fixed.

    But you are using a strawman here, this is not about the forum community, thats just a symptom of the desease, this is about the game, and why so few people actually play it online, because that is the bottom line, that is what makes or breaks an MP shooter, and things are hardly looking good.

    I have allready told you what i feel will fix this, all you have retorted with is "but i really like it as is, so its just fine!", but where are all the people then? why is UT3 having a good night if its actually pushing a few thousand players globally? there are ****e HL2 mods that are more popular than us!

    The numbers speak for themselves, i dont really have to proove anything here, its all on the books, the game is not popular, and all i see here is people dug into to their little foxholes, flinging poo at eachother, trying to blame it on various scape goats, anything except the game itself because that would hurt their feelings..
     
  18. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Right now it's a bad comparison. There are more people playing Bambi online than UT3 with the Gamespy problems.
    Yes, because we all know that EVERY game out there has IDENTICAL query methods for everything having to do with the servers that are hosted on it. Don't be stupid.
    And we already knew Gamespy counted bots. Nobody knows what Game-Monitor does, all I was saying is that I've seen them have inflated numbers in the past. I also think it's pretty likely that 25% of the servers in UT2004 are playing TAM.

    And I absolutely can claim any of them is accurate or inaccurate for any particular game. I can only assume you are making this argument while not fully aware of what you are saying, because it is simply ludicrous to believe that if something is accurate for one thing, it is automatically accurate for ALL things.
    Who is arguing that? Anyone who won't admit that CoD4 is doing billions of time better than any other game released at the same time is seriously kidding themselves. Not that Xfire's numbers are entirely accurate, but it is at least a good average. I wouldn't be surprised if CoD4 is played MORE on average than WoW due to Steam.

    Still, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. I never tried to argue that UT3 was in a good state.
     
  19. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Well you keep bringing up peoples problems with the game but I cant stress how much its more perception than it is the actual impact of these problems.

    I can agree that something needs to be done but I just dont see how another UT title is suddenly going to changes peoples perceptions. Then again UT2004 for some unknown reason but maybe it was just because UT2003 was before its time, by the end of all the patches the game had improved alot although it still suffered some major gameplay flaws.

    The game isnt very popular though and you or I cant say why thats kinda my point, sure you can take what people are saying on forums as an inidication but its by no means the definitive source. Could that possibly be because people arnt buying the game also, so I doubt people will go on the forums and say why the didnt buy it, they will however express their dissapointment with certain areas of the game.

    Im just willing to bet there is alot of people playing this game we just dont see online for whatever reason, the game could have perhaps sold better having 1mil copies across 2 platforms doesnt give us much indication of how well it sold on multiple platforms. Thats why I agree a post release demo would have done alot for the game but it just doesnt seem at the point there where it would be worth it.

    Ofcoarse I read what you said but I think you are being alittle optimistic at Epic's abilities to bring a bigger amount of extra content within what we would call a decent timeframe to "save" UT3. It was purely a comment looking at things from your perspective, if UT3 takes 2 whole years to fix especially if patches are delayed in favour of extra content we wont see for that timeframe or longer it would be just another nail in this so called coffin.

    To me UT3 just isnt popular, people dont seem to like it with some even treating the name poorly because it makes for an easy target. Thats kinda my point with people having played it once or twice, they didnt like the game before they played it and expected it to be all that much different from previous UT games or something.

    The problems I see a majority of the time do become a big problem because word of mouth is a perfectly good marketing tool, so if someone reads any of these it gives a bad view of the game wether they are something you can deal with or not.

    I guess overall you and I can sit here till we are blue in the face but there isnt any action happening on our part, from just this discussions standpoint, to help the series. All we are doing is stating the obvious, heaps of people would know this already and probably wouldnt even bother reading all this.

    I just have a belief that just because a game is popular or not doesnt go to the actual value of the game, I wont deny its buggy because I can see that for myself but I havent seen many bugs on a scale which makes the game completely unplayable since retail.

    Did you read the interview where mark rein said that UE tech was doing so well it was much harder to find people skilled with the engine to hire in the US? Honestly if contracting out is the answer then Epic wouldnt be paying the attention it should have, 2k4 is overrated!

    Simple fact of the matter is you can said Epic should, Epic could, Epic might all you want but until I hear it from them there isnt another UT in the near future!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  20. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    We are going a bit in circles here, but the point i am making is that it doesen't really matter if we see the problems as big or not, not if thousands of people do see them as big problems, to them they ARE big.
    That translates into empty servers, which hurts the game, and thus, we are forced to deal with it as a big problem, empty servers are a game killer.

    And again, it doesent have to be a sepperate title, there are many other ways of doing it, like free expansion packs that everyone can download, that would get the job done just fine.

    Thats why i say you must include the stuff people are saying on other gaming sites and forums, because there, you actually can read what people who opted not to buy UT3 are saying about it.

    What i personally have gotten out of that, is that people do like UT, they tried the demo because they wanted something like UT, i have seen very few complaints about the gameplay.. but they didn't like alot of other things about it, and chief amongst the complaints is the fact that it is "unfinished", and that they hoped the game had included something new like gamemodes (War clearly does not impress people), and when they heard that the retail game was more of the same, and lacked stuff older UT's had, they wanted no part of it, and it seems many view TF2 as a competent rival to UT3 and choose that instead.

    Sure, Epic estimates that roughly 50% of people who buy UT games play it offline only, but the problem really is that right now, 50% of the people who bought UT3 are obviously not playing it online, thats.. not good, if we just had thouse 50% there woulden't be a problem.

    Make no mistake, Epic really screwed up here, i dont think they could have made a worse release if they had tried.. so yeah, i am trying to be as optimistic as i can, it beats outright declaring the game dead/dying.

    Fact is they probably cant bring all the fixes and content to UT3 that people want and are hoping for, not within a reasonable timeframe, and i expect that things will get a whole lot worse for UT3 before they get better (or if, i guess), but that is the whole reason i say we need some big event to save it.

    Sure they can keep doing what they are doing, and we get a patch or a small bonus pack from time to time, thats fine, but will people notice? no, not really, only the few people who are allready very involved in UT3, but eventually, or atleast i desperately hope so, the game should be patched and packed to be much better, and THEN they need to make some PR push, and get people to notice the game again.

    Yeah that's what makes it hard, there's not much we can actually do, it really rests on Epic's shoulders here, and its getting a bit difficult to gauge what their commitments and plans are with this game.

    I just hope that things will pick up when the Xbox release gets out of the way, we could really use that!

    But the damage has been done, the bad release was just a trainwreck that spun out of anyones control, and if you think people here judged UT3 harshly.. ohh man, i have seen so much worse said about it on other gaming forums! wow!

    I guess all we can do now is hope that Epic takes some smart steps with the game, and that when they do, that it can do the rounds again, and get all new hype and good word of mouth, thats really all there is left to hope for i think.

    Sure, i still play alot of old games despite them having fallen off peoples radars a decade ago, but not online, obviously, for online play, the game actually does have to be popular, thats the kicker here.

    But i dont think its the bugs that are keepig people from UT3, its rather the omissions, but really its a mute point, for online play you need popularity, you need many servers and you need real people playing on them, so again, whilst you may not see UT3 having game crushing flaws, it would seem that many people do, and they are not playing it.

    Halo was overrated too, but the world is full of morons, so that got quite popular indeed.

    Again with "another UT".. thats not what i wrote!!! :p
     

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