EAS night?

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Cleeus[JgKdo]

because respawns suck
Jun 8, 2002
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Imagine there is a war - and noone fights.

We acctually had wars were both teams secured theire bases - and NO ONE went out to fight. This is not very funny. The team that moves first, looses - muahahaha. :/

edit:
PS: Sure, if he likes TDM, he can host as many TDM servers as he wants to.
 
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shan

www.clanterritory.com
Jan 29, 2000
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{GD}Odie3 said:
I see no reason not to have Servers that provide different Game Types. That is what we server admins are doing, provideing a service. Shan likes TDM and/or TDM DTAS. We {GD} like EAS/Specialist.

So, to rap up, can we not all just get along?

Agree 100%. There is room for multiple gametypes. if you are concerned there is not enough players, start pimping INF to your friends and enemies alike.

Shan
 

5eleven

I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain
Mar 23, 2003
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I used to play strictly rav2 dtas. I then played EAS. Shan put up the TDM server with quite a few nice little goodies, and I play that as well. Currently, I play both TDM and EAS, generally on SG and GD, and I love both. I play both for different reasons at different times. Agreed, if more people played, period, there would be people on more servers, but in the interim, I like having the availability of playing different gametypes on different servers. So, to Odie and Shan - :tup: Thanks to both of you for what you've done with your respective servers. Excellent job. Keep up the good work, and your server shall always overrunneth.
 

yurch

Swinging the clue-by-four
May 21, 2001
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shan said:
My philosophy is that there is nothing wrong with this. This is real life. People camp in battles. I agree that some players take this to the extreme because they want their team to win. I warn, kick or kick/ban any player that hides for the sole purpose of stalemating the game. And, guess what, I have never had to kick or ban a player. Warnings are usually enough and it is very rare you have to do that. Ghosting is enabled on my server but ghost spying is not allowed. When the last player is camping, however, we will send our ghosts out to find them...or I will find them and spawn a Skaarj nearby. The Skaarj will either kill em, draw them out, or create so much rucus that they will be found.
A game of TDM where you've got an admin issuing either warnings or skaarj attacks is not a fair breakdown of the gametype.
I've played or seen enough clan matches in this failed gametype then I care to think about, I know it doesn't work. ;)
Part of what I think lead to inf's smaller community was the utter lack of viable alternatives - when 2.86 was out the only working gametype really was TDM - all of the alternatives were horridly flawed or not even functional.
Back when I was the coolest admin ever™, we ran a CTF version of inf (with at least 3 mutators just to get it 'playable') - it was a smash hit, but the project ultimately failed in the eyes of us AFA'ers due to the lack of a proper spawning solution. After that, I made TAS - which finally produced a tolerable gameplay, for at least myself. I'd be gone otherwise. But of course, that being a custom 'gametype' introduced outside of infiltration's development team, half of the players write it off. The damage has already been done, if you ask me.
I am not sure that the development has anything to do with it, unless you are trying to point out why so many games use that recipe. If that is your point, I still would say that recipe is used because it works. A lot of developers do more complicated things, such as Assault, but gamers keep going back to TDM. Gamers want to have fun. What is fun to some is not to all. TDM just happens to be the "fun recipe" that tastes good to the majority of players.
I'm not telling you how to run your servers but I have to correct the notion that TDM is at all even a popular gametype... with the possible exception of CoD's TDM (which is special - it has a unique method to it) usually another gametype comes out on top. For UT, it was Capture the Flag, not TDM.

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/ is an easy reference for that sort of thing.

Edit: yes, I realize much of this doesn't have anything to do with running TDM or not on current servers. Don't mind yurch, he'll stop raving eventually.
 

shan

www.clanterritory.com
Jan 29, 2000
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Not sure that we are dissagreeing here. When I refer to TDM, I am really including TDM, DM and CTF (at least I was in my head). They are very simple play models that do work. I can;t argue about whether or not they work in clan matches, but since 99% of the gaming community does not clan match, I don't think that should be in a developers minds. People serious enough about the game to want to clan match it are going to mod it anyhow.

My point simply was that TDM rules the roost in Inf (maybe DTAS will when its done) because it is easy and fun. In my opinion, it does not rule becase EAS sucks or there is nothing else to play. There are hundreds of games and thousands of mods out there. It rules because it is easy, you can jump right in and once you figure out the camos, the rules of the game are pretty obvious. Not everyone is willing to invest lots of time to play a game. Clanners are, but they are not usually the target developers are after. Then on top of the simplicity, you get an experience no other game provides...at least not that I've played. Iron sites, movement enhancements, etc. benefit TDM as much as any other game mode.

Anyhow, lets just agree to disagree. I am out of energy for this topic. :)

Shan

Shan
 
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gal-z

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May 20, 2003
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If EAS maps were smaller and/or more user-friendly it would be simple enough for players to jump right in. I mean, the routes for the obj should be very clear so that new players would know the map as well as possible so they have a chance to play the actual game. Then we also wouldn't have people solving the problem by playing TDM (which can be much worse when maps are big).
 

Fat Marrow

Vegetable
Feb 27, 2002
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gal-z said:
If EAS maps were smaller and/or more user-friendly it would be simple enough for players to jump right in. I mean, the routes for the obj should be very clear so that new players would know the map as well as possible so they have a chance to play the actual game. Then we also wouldn't have people solving the problem by playing TDM (which can be much worse when maps are big).

I think there's a trade-off between simplicity and replayability; at one extreme, for example, you could have a simple push style map with a single objective -- this would be very easy to learn. After a few plays on such maps, however, the game flow always ends up the same, with only one or two choke points, and who wins is decided by luck and individual skill rather than who has the best and most creative strategy. These sort of maps generally get real old, real quick.

On the other hand, on maps with multiple routes and multiple objectives, no two games need be the same, and you have much more scope for interesting teamwork.

The other issue is that if you have a full server, small maps can quickly become simple bloodbaths. But I would agree that these maps have their place in a well-balanced map rotation.

For my part, I'm still learning what does and doesn't work gameplay-wise in EAS and, I presume, so are others; it is difficult to make a map that will work well both for a full server and for a couple of people only, but I think it's possible. We may well, in any event, see more small and/or simple EAS maps as more conversions are done (e.g. UrbanAssault), and a greater use of random spawns and random objectives.
 

gal-z

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May 20, 2003
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I think the point we're getting to is that servers should have different maplists for different amount of people. If a mutator can do that it would be great. What do u think?
Also big maps can be easy to learn, as long as the ways for the objective are clear rather than sending you to a gazillion of dead-ends when u follow the compass.
 

shan

www.clanterritory.com
Jan 29, 2000
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What I try to do is have various size maps so that the players can vote for smaller or bigger depending on the numbers on the server. This seems to work OK.

I would be nice to have a mutie that let me remove certain maps from the rotation if there were fewer or more than a set number of players. You should post that suggestion in new version suggestions. Maybe someone will do a mutie.

Shan
 

Exar

INForcer
Nov 7, 2001
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shan said:
I can;t argue about whether or not they work in clan matches, but since 99% of the gaming community does not clan match, I don't think that should be in a developers minds.
:con: Are you talking about INF? :confused:



shan said:
People serious enough about the game to want to clan match it are going to mod it anyhow.
:con: Eeeeehm... I don't know what to say..... eeeeehm.... how did you get this into your head? :confused: