DTAS/EAS/TDM

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Harper [Jgkdo]

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Feb 8, 2004
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If someone wants to discuss the advantages/disadvantage of his favorite game mode, plz do it here. I intentional didn't want the "Your favorite gametype" thread to be used for this discussion because it already went towards discussing FORT
Now to get started here are my oppinions on the different game types:
TDM:
I can't understand why everyone is still playing this. Most if not all TDM servers don't even run RTS which would make it somewhat more interesting. Instead both teams start at the same points every round, toss a blindnade over the same wall and got shot or shoot someone at the same location. If anyone decides to make a more stealthy or defensive approach he will be called a camper and on the worst be kicked. We are not the bus in "Speed". We don't have to run at 10mph all the time and we will not explode when we slow down.
Beside that I think the gametype should be better called "Selective Death Match" because you aren't allowed to shoot everyone (but in TEAM Death Match I wouldn't abandon my own team in the beginning of every round).

EAS:
I really think EAS could have made a fine gamemode if it hadn't some major flaws:
First of all respawns are killing teamplay. They are destroying it because a sole fast soldier has a better chance to slip through enemy lines than a slow moving group of soldiers. As soon as the group will kill the first tango, they will get blindnaded 30 seconds after.
Another point that bothers me is that EAS has beautiful maps but with static spawnpoints most player will never see all of it (I bet some even didn't know that there is another courtyard behind the attacker spawn or about the "secret room" on ACB). On Mostar you can see how good random spawnpoints are for the replay value of a map.
The last point I don't like is the two rounds limitation of EAS maps and the lack of a final round to determine the winner (though the current system does the best job it can do with only two rounds played).
If it wasn't for these three points EAS would be incredible and most likely my favorite gamemode.

DTAS:
Of course I am somewhat biased about this ;)
DTAS tries to achieve high replay value for maps by providing random spawn points, it encourages teamwork when defending or attacking the objective and it provides soldiers with exactly one life to do their job. It might be that the objective is not the most convincing one, but I guess some orders in the real army will look strang too.
 

- Lich -

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Jul 1, 2004
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Derelan said:
Uh, there is a thread called "your favorite gametype", and nobody is forbidding it to trail off. Why didn't you post all this in that thread?

Well, maybe cause of :

Harper said:
I intentional didn't want the "Your favorite gametype" thread to be used for this discussion because it already went towards discussing FORT
 

{GD}Odie3

You Give Odie a Boner
Nov 19, 2001
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I think the problem with EAS is the lack of maps, i.e. Mappers. We all agree that Mostar is a great map but no one has made map like it. The only new maps that where made where made by Opfor yet he ran into problems. The funny thing it seems no one would help him fix his issue(s), so he gave up. This is why I think DTAS works so well in Infiltration, you get to recycle any Infiltration Map, every thing gets to be like a Mostar. As for respawns - I like EAS Respawns, if the respawn timmer is high enough.
 

Derelan

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Jul 29, 2002
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So you're starting a new topic because a new topic was started in a topic? Whatever...

I enjoy EAS because there is constant thrill; in advance (if the map isn't ridiculously large), in assault, in defense, and in extract. The problem with DTAS, is that the 'assault' part often ends up to be very boring.

DTAS:
Step 1: Advance, rarely encounter defense
Step 2: Reach flag radius? Wait 20 seconds to see if there are defenders
Step 3: Assault flag radius, with the intention of KILL KILL KILL
Step 4: You win/lose!

However, the great thing about DTAS is that the assault part is always different. In EAS, it gets to the point where you know exactly how everything should work. And that's great, if you're part of Ocean's 11.

We need random-EAS, where a player places a cd (only if they are on the ground, not in midair), and the enemy must capture it, and bring it back to their flag.
 

geogob

Koohii o nomimasu ka?
TDM: It's an interesting game, though I don't understand the popularity it has. What TDM lack is a point other than just getting frags. Personnally, if I want to get some frags and brag them around, I prefer a good FFA in quake3 or UT2004. Still once in a while TDM is fun. It just gets less-original with time.

EAS: This is a very interesting game type IMO. Much of it comes from its flexibility. It can lead to very fun and challenging games and it's probably the gametype I enjoy the most. Sadly, EAS is plagued with a few problems. First are the maps. A nice map is one thing... an map with good objectives is another. Most maps do not use EAS at its full potential, which makes the games very repetitive and similar (get there, get the cd, go back). In this I also include the fixed objective and/or spawn points. This is more a map issue than a gametype issue but it's all related. The second problem about EAS is that it's highly dependant on who you are playing with. EAS can either be a great challenging game, a huge Team deathmatch with apparent objective or a total carnage for one of the teams.

Specialist: The great forgotten one. This could probably be the best gametype ever made for INF. Since it's an abstraction of EAS, it is plagued with the same problems. Then again, Spec gametype is even more team/player dependant than EAS and the way the selected specialist works with the team makes huge difference. This game type could be greatly improved, IMO, by a voting feature where the team can vote for a specialist. Specialist is also imcompatible with certain maps. Maps designed with the spec gametype in mind should have been made a long time ago.

DTAS: This is another very interesting gametype due to it's randomness and teamoriented gameplay. Sadly way to often DTAS becomes a large TDM game. Again very player dependant, but much less map dependant. Of course, some maps are better for this gametype, but most of them are good.

Deathmatch: Hell no.

Last man standing: Why would you?

Capture the flag: Road to Kandahar anyone?
 

Lt.

Elitist bastard
Aug 11, 2004
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something about specialist mode doesnt sit right with me, i truly dislike how nerfed the specialist is, and therefore never enjoyed playing as much as i could have.

why does the specialist have a stamna limit?
why cant he carry a rifle?

to me it's both unrealistic and un-fun.
civi-63.jpg

civi-63.jpg - an Israeli technician (brown pants, helmet /w shield)

they may be wussy civilian specialists, but they still gear up and fight alongside their escort. The specialist should really get either A) any item they want, or B) full armor and no guns at all.

Its just not realistic to force pistols-only :(



other then that, Specialist is a pretty cool mode and can really add something to the already cool EAS. Even against bots Specialist on Mostar is awsome. :tup:
 

Derelan

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Jul 29, 2002
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Lt. said:
something about specialist mode doesnt sit right with me, i truly dislike how nerfed the specialist is, and therefore never enjoyed playing as much as i could have.

why does the specialist have a stamna limit?
why cant he carry a rifle?

to me it's both unrealistic and un-fun.
civi-63.jpg

civi-63.jpg - an Israeli technician (brown pants, helmet /w shield)

they may be wussy civilian specialists, but they still gear up and fight alongside their escort. The specialist should really get either A) any item they want, or B) full armor and no guns at all.

Its just not realistic to force pistols-only :(



other then that, Specialist is a pretty cool mode and can really add something to the already cool EAS. Even against bots Specialist on Mostar is awsome. :tup:
Is the guy on the left smoking a joint?
 

Lt.

Elitist bastard
Aug 11, 2004
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Derelan said:
Is the guy on the left smoking a joint?
yes, i have always thought it looks like he is smoking :lol:

as for the SF guy on the right, i guess he is firing down the ally or something. :rolleyes:
judging by their liberal use of those shields, and the way he is ducking I can only assume there was a fairly significant volume of fire being put up against them.
civi-24.jpg


they certainly dont look too happy about having to charge down the street, do they?
dm-34.jpg


as for the specialist, he might be adjusting his chinstrap, but im pretty sure he is havin’ a smoke.

from the photos you can see that about 40 guys have already charged down that road, so he was pretty safe behind that wall.



but now we are way, way OT. ;)
 

Beppo

Infiltration Lead-Programmer
Jul 29, 1999
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The specialist is someone that is not compareable to a regular SpecOps soldier like the rest of the INF soldiers. He is someone trained in electronics or whatever, but not a 'fighter'.
So he starts off with a pistol only loadout, is not trained and so has lesser bulk values he is able to carry without affecting his stamina. He CAN carry a rifle if someone hands one over to him, but gets a higher impact on stamina as your average INF soldier. This should reflect the thing that he IS in need of being protected by the rest of the team. He is the key factor in the mission. Without him the mission cannot be completed. So, you guys need to protect him.

If the specialist would be one standard INF soldier, then noone would need to protect him at all. He would fight exactly as the other guys but would be the only guy able to ie hack into the laptop to grab the data.

The reason for selecting the specialist randomly has a simple reason too. Anybody can become the specialist. A vote option would allow players to become the specialist and actually train for this role. So the non-elite status of the specialist in RL would become a highly specialized all-around fighter within the game if you have someone that digs into this role.
Key factor in the specialist game mode is that the whole team HAS to work as a team, cause the specialist normally needs assistance to complete his job in one piece. In addition clan matches need specialized teams that can even work with one guy taken out and 'transformed' into a specialist randomly. So the setup of the whole team is different to a standard EAS team due to the randomly selected specialist. So everyone within the team has to be able to take over the job of the guy that is 'missing' or has to be able to support the team even with limited stamina and weaponry as a specialist.
We thought that the specialist game mode would be perfect for clan matches due to the very high requirements a team has to meet.
For public play specialist highly depends on the folks that do play on the server cause not everyone is suited to play the specialist role effectively. Well but this 'should' foster team play actually but never worked out due to the selfishness of most players out there.
Unfortunately, for many it isn't fun to support someone that plays like the first noob ever and for many it isn't fun to be dependent on the rest of the team to be able to complete a mission. But for some this is the base of teamplay... but as said, unfortunately not for too many out there.

To the random spawns etc...
many many times this issue popped up here on the forums and many times we ended up with the suggestion of writing a mutator that allows different scenarios for specific maps (like Mostar). Unfortunately the suggestions and 'promised' infos needed for 'your' random setups never made it into my mailbox.
So, if you have suggestions, setups etc, then send them over and we can make things more random for the existing maps. 'All' I need is a list of objects to be moved, removed, replaced or added to a map for n scenarios. So mainly a new setup of the whole map without changing the architecture at all.
 

{GD}Odie3

You Give Odie a Boner
Nov 19, 2001
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I would figured you would have already had a good idea for a mutator like this. Plus I believe I have missed the thread (or fogotten about it) about a mutator like this.

Mutator Suggestions:
On Cap the CD Only Maps - Have the CD move in different places but Defenders Spawn very near it to get setup for defending. Some how add and area where Attackers have to fortify and pushes defenders spawn X meters back from CD Spawn area. Perhaps a circle that is X large around the CD area is CAP'ed and the Denfenders spawn gets moved.

I'll think more about this.....