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Domino's Vehicle Ideas

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by Domino, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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  2. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    Errr Domino it was a joke :p I'm glad you didn't take it personal.
    I'll stop replying now, I don't like the idea of tanks. I don't like the idea of anything armoured in INF.
     
  3. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Vehicles for missions.

    Mission 1 (Sabotage)
    - Defenders, have to take a SAM vehicle and drive it to a special point, than they have to await 2 figherjets (F18?) to pass the town. They have to destroy at least one of the jets, to succed.
    Notice, jets are able to outcome the messiles randomly.

    - Attackers have to sabotage this mission.

    A defender soldier have to drive the vehicle to the point.
    When the defenders can hear the two jets at the distance, they know they have to prepare. When they see the jets passing the town, one of the defenders have to open a pannel on the vehicle, and at the right moment activate the rockets.
    Attackers can use a bomb to 'disarm' the SAM vehicle.


    Mission 2 (Sabotage)
    - Attackers, have to drive a truck with a huge bomb to a special place and let it detonating.

    1. A commander can have the remote control and observe the truck with a binocle and detonate it when the driver is save.
    2. The driver can have the remote control, and let it detonating if he reaches a save distance.
    3. Or, the driver is going to the bomb, activate it manually and run.


    Mission 3
    - They is a small village, in a desert, at the main road (blokaded at both sides) is car with something important for the attackers.

    The attackers spawn far from the village, they have to use trucks and jeeps to get to the village.
    The buildings are close, so no vehicles can be used. The attackers have to leave the vehicles and enter the village (pure CQB in the streets), but leaving the vehicles they have to care of defenders shooting from the buildings.
     
  4. Domino

    Domino < Phoenix Rising >

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    That brings up another idea:

    The Key

    In order to start the vehicles, the player needs "The Key". In order to prevent those overzealous players from running to the vehicles as quickly as they can, it would randomly put the key in one of the teammates inventory. The key would also check the soldiers Driver Rating and factor that in.

    If the player who spawned with the key is inactive (no button pressing) for say.. 20 seconds, the Key respawns onto another person.

    If the player who spawned with the key doesn't enter a vehicle within an allotted time, the key should respawn to the closest person to the vehicle.

    and lastly, the key could be transferable within a close distance. Say soldier X has the key, but knows he isn't a good driver, so when one of his buddies Soldier Y shows up, he can hand off the key to him, and the whole team prospers.

    Driver Rating

    As each player continues to participate in the match, they could all start out with a rating of 100 ... then, as they use more vehicles, that rating would stabilize or go down depending on their performance in that vehicle.

    So that means, if pyscho-gamer Timmy drives like a maniac, endangering his team, and performing very un-military like driving maneuvers, his rating would suffer, thus reducing his chances of getting the Key again.

    The system should be generally easy-going though, the player would have to run over teammates or something as equally severe to damage their rating.

    Just some ideas... maybe this would make a better mutator or something.
     
  5. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    Those idea aren't bad, Psycho... I would see that somewhat like the specialist gametype where only on can drive the truc/vehicule. To make it a little more "balanced" than the current specialist gametype, I'd add a "backup specialist" option. If the specialist dies, a backup specialist is selected out of the group. Or something around those lines... Using vehicules as objective is not a bad idea. But the main focus of the battle should remain as it is now.
     
  6. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    @Domino:
    Yes, the driver rating is something we should talk about. I don´t like any ratings, but since the danger of having ppl, that fool around with vehicles is too high, they should be something worked out.

    Key:
    I find it a bit too 'capture the key style', or better to say 'guess who has the key', but who knows.

    What about if many vehicles have keys. If you find a driveable vehicle with no key, you should be able to short-circuit it. Therefore, you have to look at the dash-board and hold the use key, untill the vehicle starts.
    Maybe it would make sense, to be able to take keys, for example to prevent enemies to use the vehicle (or to force them to take time for short-circuitting). But that could be problematic with idiots.

    Using civilian cars (Lada,...) would be interessting too.


    Therefore I update my suggestion of using the vehicles:
    1. Look at the door and open it via use key.
    2. Look at the chair and use key to sit down.
    3. Look at the door to close it.
    4. If you sitting inside, look at the dash-board and use key again, to start (for the case if you want to enter the vehicle, but not start it automatical and alert the foes).
    5. Open the door and look outside (pushing use key), to exit the vehicle.
    - You have to deactivate (dunno the right word) the vehicle manually, so you can start the car, enable the lights (attachment key, like with flashlight), exit it and have light outside :D

    Sounds confusing, but I think it makes sense, and wont take much time.


    Nothing else. You still need to have armed forces to protect the suggested SAM, or shoot the foe forces to destroy it.
    Sometimes attackers need armored vehicles, to come close to a village, and than fight in the tight streets, where no vehicle can pass. But they always should be chances for normal soldiers to cover themself from the vehicles.
    Also armor piercing rockets would be dangerous for the armored vehicles, while normal vehicles can be damaged pretty much, by using normal small arms.
    Or just to transport the troops to a special place.


    But only some missions should have vehicles, while other missions do not have any vehicles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2004
  7. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    a few thoughts of mine:

    Ben pretty much hit the nail on the head, extend of vehicle usage will be a mapping issue.

    @Geo: I can think of a lot of repetetive discussions, thats simply how forums work. With SS new screenshots it was more than likely we would have a new discussion on vehicles.

    I used to be a big fan of vehivles for INF in the past... until BF 1942 came up. This is how arcardish, massive multiplayer military shooters look like. No need to compete with them. And going for maximum realism isn't possible with BF gamestyle.

    From what I read, the community pretty much agrees on stuff that any of us can handle in real life (jeeps, trucks, rubber boats)

    IMO stuff like tanks and choppers should be pretty rare and strictly limited to the maps objective . I posted some ideas somewhere else (I'll try to dig it up) but search&rescue or seek&destroy missions including one single tank sound pretty interesting to me and could really do a great job on dynamic EAS.

    In BF tanks and everything are (ab)used as the ritch man's infantry and its impossible to implement 'em realistically without taking away the infantry focus. So make appearance of armored vehicles a rare higlight but don't put an Abrahams M1A1 into the armory. ;)

    Players will decide wether they like the vehicle maps or rather stick to pure infantry.

    ... just my 2 cent
     
  8. keihaswarrior

    keihaswarrior New Member

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    Tanks would be waay to hard to put in the game realistically. Think of all the stuff you would need:

    1) The battle cannon needs to be able to fully destroy buildings.
    2) The tanks itself needs to be able to run through flimsy buildings and barricades
    3) A full hit detection system for every part of the tank
    4) Full entering and exiting animations with fully modeled interior.
    5) Tank damage system. Tanks aren't simply alive or dead, there are many many degrees of damage with the dozens of systems onboard.

    --This would simply be too hard to implement without totally butchering it.


    Vehicles that should be in INF:
    Small rubber boats
    Humvee
    Blackhawk (AI piloted, Squad leader chooses 1 of several predefined LZ's)
     
  9. [C22]-Acolyte

    [C22]-Acolyte Ai kotoba afuro to gunsou!

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    And how does a Humvee escape from the need of points 3 and 4?

    I personally wouldn't mind seeing tanks in Inf. They'd be cool and would add mission variety, but they are not really necessary.
     
  10. Crowze

    Crowze Bird Brain

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    No vehicle should escape 3 and 4 IMO, especially 3 would make the game pretty unique and realistic.
     
  11. Lt.

    Lt. Elitist bastard

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    what about an ATV ;)

    i would find that more useful then a HMMWV, lower speed, faster dismount, and smaller size. making more areas accessible and making the INFperson a smaller target.

    some AI choppers, 4x4's (land rovers not HMMWV), zodiac's and some ATV's to scoot around on would fit my bill.
     
  12. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Ah damn always fotget to write down the suggestions complete.

    Inside the vehicle
    If you drive a jeep, or truck (also other vehicles), you should be able to lower your stance by pushing crouch key, to get cover, but you do not see the ground, but the air.

    You also should be able to higher your stance by pushing the jump key. Than you kinda stand up a bit from the chair (like all possible in RL), and can observe whats next to the front of the vehicle.

    Also you should be bale to lean. Leaning to the left (where the opened window of a vehicle door is), you lean out the window and can observe the place.


    1. Who knows, to be able to open the window if vehicle doors would be good, by looking at the crank and push use key, to open the window.
     
  13. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    Nice suggestions but we need to limit some things to remain playable.
    To force someone to hit ie the use key three or more times in a row before the engine starts is a bit much. Ie one hit for opening the door and jumping/climbing into the vehicle, then followed by one key hit more to start the engines is enough. This way the player has full control over the moment he decides to start the engine and this way you can decide at what time you want to stop the engine too. A nice design to have this fully in your players hands to remain 'stealthy' if needed or to get someones attention at the correct time.

    Hijacking an enemy vehicle that you are allowed to drive/fly should need some more time for the startup procedure, cause you have to search for the keys or shortcut it if you want to call it that way.

    Different stances within a vehicle should be possible and would be able to let you hide behind the steering wheel without the engine running if someone passes by for example. Leaning out of the window... well... I would not do this while driving a truck or HMMVW cause the risk of 'taking damage' is a bit high. Sure if your front window is broken then you should be able to kick it out or something alike, but I would never lean my head out of the doors side window.

    Different stances below hatches for example are possible and our test vehicles already can do this. Ie the driver of the M113 can select if he sticks his head out by opening the drivers hatch or if he limits his view to the inside view with hatch closed and only looking thru the 'peep holes'. Same for the co-gunners of the Fuchs or M113. They can either sit in the vehicle without being able to fire the mounted MG and the hatch closed or they can stand up, opening the hatch and can control the MG then.
     
  14. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Ok, opening the door and sit down as I suggested as separate actions, can be fused to one, of course. Otherwise you just need to start the engine by a second push of the use key (or other).

    But I think it is logic, that you better activate the lamps by another key (not automatical as in UT2004). I would suggest the attachment key is the most logical, since it activates flashlights too.


    Leaning was just meant as a possibility, for example to take a full look behind the vehicle, cuz the mirrors limmits your view (and in a truck, it is senseless to look behind inside the car, its not like a jeep).

    I also think, like in RL you should be able to turn your head 180° to the left and to the right (also when leaned [if possible]), cuz in RL you turn not only your head, but also the torso a bit. And to have a good view is very important for a driver. Sure, over 180° and 360° turns are no possible, unless you make breakdance in the chair.



    You said you can lower the stance, to hide in a jeep, or truck, or to cover your head in a M113. But what about to choose a higher position, which is important for truck drivers, to take a look whats in front of him, or to spot enemies crouching close to the truck.
    I also think it is the most logic, to have the normal stance keys to control stances in the vehicles.

    - The crouch key (no matter if hold, or toggle) should be a normal/lower stance toggle inside viehicles.
    (normal = sitting normal in cars, head sticking out the hatch, lower = hide in a car, keepng head inside the hatch).

    - The jump key should be a hold key, to raise stance, since it is possible in RL, but you can´t make it a long time you have to hold a key, which is not comfortable to hold the whole time ;). If you hold it for to long you return to normal stance automatical after some seconds.

    Just some suggestion, probably you solved those questions allready, dunno.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2004
  15. fist_mlrs

    fist_mlrs that other guy

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    we are going by manual selected lights or none at all, everything else would be pretty pointless. the current test vehicles don't use this yet, but since in combat you cover most of your vehicles lights, this is something that has to be done.

    that truely hard to implent, and its not all that easy in reallife, i for once can't lean ot of the window and reach the gas at the same time, not to mention using the gearshift. not all that important i think.

    driving a car without beein amble to look behind would be rather pointless. allread implented with the test vehicles.

    currently this is implented by secondary fire, but since jump and crouch keys aren't assigned to anything that couldn't use an other key in the current vehicle setup, i guess this should be possible. nice suggestion imo, i wouldn't have thought about this myself.

    btw, i wouldn't expect anything bigger then the m113, as at least for my taste it is pretty much the limit. this is infiltration, not m1 tank platoon 3, so see the vehicles as a iportant, but not neccessary addition to win the match.
     
  16. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Thank for the infos ;)
    Using a normal car, you can stick out your head out of the sidewindow and still drive, but not important ingame. I was aware of coding issues.

    Now my next question, the pistols for drivers I suggested.
    Will it be possible? I think it is important for a driver to protect himself, at least to win a bit time to leave the vehicle. If they´s an enemie coming closer, you can give some shots and force him to cover and you can leave the vehicle.
    Or while driving, if theys an enemie car following you , so you can hold em at distance.
    As I suggested the normal aim key to aim pistol and holster.
    If vehices have a sidegun, you take this, if not, you take yours.
    About the ability using stockless SMG's like the Uzi, I dont know, probably driveroverkill.

    Will an enemy be able to open the hatch while you are in the M113? Or is it locked nowerdays. If not, a pistol would be godlike.

    Thats probably something the most here would agree with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2004
  17. Domino

    Domino < Phoenix Rising >

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    Do you mean something like hanging yourself out the window and capping people GTA style? :D
     
  18. fist_mlrs

    fist_mlrs that other guy

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    maybe a interstat 76/82 is possible, but i don't think it will do much against a mg3 mounted on a fuchs. for non arrmored vehicles however, it might be usefull
    one of our intents is to enable passengers to use their weapons while inside the vehicle and sitting at certain locations. i guees this should be possible even with ut2004, but since my coding knowledge is rather pathetic please don't put any thrust in this.
     
  19. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    I had an idea how to implement mostly any vehicle realistically:

    How about the player just representing the commander of a the vehicle crew and the specialiesed jobs are done by 'bots'

    For example: You are a commander of a tank.
    Another player can directly use the machine gun on top, but driving reloading and using the main gun is controlled indirectly by the commander giving orders to the rest of the crew. You would have the sight of a tank commander and see the instruments he sees.

    By pressing the usual gamecontrol buttons you would give the shoot, reload, set different speeds etc. commands. To improve atmosphere you would always hear the command and the confirm and after a realistical delay the tank (or whatever vehicle) would obey your commands.



    What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2004
  20. Fenris

    Fenris [-I-]Fenris

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    Well... If the vehicle needs multiple people to be operated efficiently it should be used by multiple players or not at all. Else you only have Mr. Noob run away with it. It's not like INF was singleplayer...
     

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