Does logitech mouseware sensitivity affect ingame sens?

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randyannie

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Oct 13, 2004
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Hey Peeps, just wondering if anyone knows if Logitech Mouseware - software and drivers (for MX510 or other) has any affect on the sens. ingame that you set via the UT2004 settings console? Or do they act independently and ignore each other. Thanks for your input.

Prozac :)
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
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They both have an effect. The higher the setting in Windows, the lower the setting you're gonna need in-game to keep the same overall sensitivity and vice versa.
 
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Raffi_B

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Oct 27, 2002
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When messing with sens options outside the game (windows, mouseware, etc.) you should try and use as high of a sensitivity as possible to max out DPI. The in-game sens can be dropped by the same factor so in the end you get the same sensitivity but more accuracy.

There's also a tool to increase the poll rate (refresh rate) on the USB interface your mouse uses. The default is 125 hz (8 ms response time) for windows, and this can be increased to 250 (4 ms), 500 (2 ms), or even 1000 (1 ms) hz. I am currently using 500 hz and my mouse feels a lot smoother and more precise. The program is called USB Mouserate Switcher if anyone wants to try it out.

Quick disclaimer: you alter your config at your own risk. If anything blows up don't blame me or the guy who wrote the program ;)
 

ThirtySixBelow

tactical inaccuracy
Feb 6, 2005
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How would it serve an benefit if you already do not experience any negative acceleration. It polls more often, but I already feel like my mx510 is about as smooth as a mouse could possibly be. I remember hearing that there were some ill effects to doing this. What could possibly happen besides keeping other usb devices from working in that port anymore?
 

Taleweaver

Wandering spirit
May 11, 2004
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Off course
Can't speak for others, but so far, I've got the impression it helps.

...Which is all that matters to me. Thanks for the link, Raffi :)
 

CyMek

Dead but not gone.
Jan 4, 2004
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I'm using it @ 250 mhz, and don't notice too much of a difference. I suck at UT though, so it probably wont make much of a difference.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
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randyannie said:
Just a friendly question for clarifications sake, what do you mean by: Unbelievable? I really don't know what you meant by it. :)
He's saying, basically, it's stupid how much of a person's skill in this game is based on how much they're willing to pay for hardware, how much you know about game settings to make the game run well (i.e. low texture detail makes players stand out more, INI h4x like rolloff so you can hear people better and unlit pawns so they stand out in the dark better, etc.), and even your knowledge of Windows h4xs like this. It's not fair and it's dumb.

Can't say that I haven't done such things (though I don't think I'm gonna be doing this USB h4x for fear of frying my ports), but that doesn't mean it's not dumb. How can you call this game competitive when so much of the skill involved in being competitive is knowing how to make the game run how you like it and in a way that gives you an advantage over someone who doesn't know any better?

That pretty much sums up his feelings, I believe.

The only real way to make this fair is to list all the possible h4x and the settings in this game and what could possibly come from changing them so that everyone could take advantage of them if they wanted.

For example, anyone using mouse smoothing and reduce mouse lag is hurting their aim (provided they have a decent mouse and mouse lag isn't a problem). Is there any documentation on this? No. You have to find someone who already knows this and have them tell you to find out. Sure, Average Joe could screw around with those settings, but odds are he won't because the game comes with them enabled. Or how about this? Anyone using EAX is hurting their ability to hear the sounds in the game because it makes them harder to hear from a distance. Most people do not know these things, and it's unfair that a select few keep these secrets to themselves.

If I can be arsed, I might make a list of all the INI/GUI/Windows h4x I know and post them up so people can try things out and we can get things more on an even ground.
 

Nunchuk_Skillz

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May 18, 2005
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Well, if it's any consolation, at least at LAN events the only changes players can make to the game is via the GUI, so at least you know it's not hacks/tricks, etc., that are making them good.

Of course, that doesn't say anything for people online, but I'd be willing to bet that a superior ping & connection (esp. in game types without utcomp) makes a bigger difference than all those hacks combined.

I do agree, though -- on some level it's kinda irritating and I do wish we were all looking at the same game. Imo that's about the *only* appeal that console gaming actually has.
 

-AEnubis-

fps greater than star
Dec 7, 2000
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Basically, but I'm not going to sit here and cry "hax", because really, it's not.

More than anything, it's stuff like this though, that makes me question PC's in the future of competitive gameing. This is a perfect example of why consoles are gonna be the way to go. This and system spec differences.

...and I assume you speak of LANs where they don't bring their own computer? That is the fun thing about something like this, is that it is completely outside of the game. You could delete a user.ini, refresh a default, and watch them only set it up in the gui, you can't really do that with a windows installation.
 

JohnDoe641

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ThirtySixBelow said:
I remember hearing that there were some ill effects to doing this. What could possibly happen besides keeping other usb devices from working in that port anymore?
You will lose quite a few fps if your cpu isn't that great and you have the hz set at 500 or more. That's really it, unless you've got cheap hardware. Then I defintely wouldn't do it. :p
 

Raffi_B

Administrator
Oct 27, 2002
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Many people only tweak things that they need to tweak. To me, I need stuff like this because I've noticed that as my input device becomes more consistent, it's easier to associate certain mouse movements with certain screen movements, making improvement easier also.

After a certain point, it becomes too fuzzy to determine what constitutes a hack, IMO. Forcing models for example... on the one hand it's an .ini tweak that requires research, and it can provide an advantage to those who use it. On the other hand, anyone can go in and change it. Some people consider it a hack, and others do not. I believe that tweaks that allow you to translate your existing skill more accurately into the game are not hacks, whereas tweaks that create false skill are hacks. For example, setting low texture detail isn't a hack whereas turning off textures altogether is a hack, IMO.
 

-AEnubis-

fps greater than star
Dec 7, 2000
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Yeah, but the difference between "tweaks that allow you to translate your existing skill more accurately into the game are not hacks, whereas tweaks that create false skill" are completely subjective to peoples opinions. There in is where the problem lies.

I may think, IMO, that ones aim skill is how well they deal with the input given them. I used to think that the whole controller thing was BS, and I didn't wanna play console shooters without a keyboard/mouse combo, because it seemed the best realitive choice of input deivce for the style of game. I've recently grown to accept that the reason they make it so nigh-possible to do (despite hardware capabilities) for games like say, Halo/Halo2, is because the game is balanced for that limited input. Play Halo PC, and you know what I mean. Alien weapons dont' exist (metaphorically), it's all hit-scan, and sniper. Who is to say that Epic didn't code UT and balance the weapons with only average stock installed input devices to test it? Who is to say that if they took time to tweak the refresh and poll rates on thier input devices, that they wouldn't have shaved a couple damage off of lightning bolts, or minigun bullets? or even capped the max tick rate servers were capable of? Does anyone even consider variables like that when making tweaks like this? No, becuase they are simply looking for an edge in their game. I know people don't think of how ping effects balance on a regular basis, otherwise things like newnet would never be coded... Or, they would nerf the crap out of any weapon that gains that much of an advantage under LAN conditions. I don't wanna stray to that subject, but it is kinda related.

Console games won't have this problem, because every ones input device is regulated by the same drivers and settings. Everyone is playing with the same vid card, proc, and frame rates, and everyone's "skill" is filtered through the same variables. If you try to change those variables in an Xbox game now, you risk getting your box black listed for online play. It becomes all how you adapt to what is given you, vs what you adapt to yourself.

The problem with this is, I couldn't see somone doing better with less precise equip because of a playing style. I could only see that precision costing them more in frames because of less money to invest in the hardware to push it.

Even more circumstances where the money you can invest in this game will make the difference between "win or lose" at equal skill levels. It's an accepted fact in PC games, but it's getting bad, especially the way this game keeps pushing the limits of visuals, and hardware.
 
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edhe

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Jun 12, 2000
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That's the point AE, it's an accepted fact in PC games that hardware affects how well you game. It's also accepted that once you've bought your PC it's getting old, that you'll have to triple or quadruple the amount you'd spend on consoles to keep up to date in and out.

It's a real luxury.

The other thing is that the game's so niche now, nobody's really going to care ;)

I stick by my previous post and thinking a little more on it, it would be nice if there was some kind of utility to help tweak your machine to the next game, and the next game to your machine for a couple of levels: performance, mix or full blow effects.

But anyway, it's really only spilled milk, it's not like tweaking the mouse will make the loser start to be the winner without the ability to aim it anyway.
 

-AEnubis-

fps greater than star
Dec 7, 2000
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I know, and like I kind of said, I'm not gonna sit here and cry hax, because I dont' feel it is that huge of a deal. It's more the concept, mentality, and attitude behind what is being done, and the larger effects it could possibly have on the game.

The knowledge that there is a medium where this isn't a problem (or as big of one) just makes me start questioning the future of gaming on PC's. It's just starting to make more and more sense for devs to focus on console games. Writing a game for only one set of hardware is already leaps and bounds easier then what they currently deal with, and then your answer to something like this is yet more work for them? Write a program that does windows tweaks for you, and comes with the game? Sounds more like giving them another reason to focus on consoles.

I'm glad Epic seems to want to try to stick to their PC roots, and ride that out for as long as possible, but I'm starting to wonder how long it will last.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
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Well, pretty soon I'm guessing PCs and consoles will be one in the same, so I don't think it'll matter for too much longer. :p