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Dodge jump , yes or no?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 2003/2004' started by DrDoomed, May 20, 2006.

?

dodge jumping , yes or no

  1. yep

    24 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. nope

    12 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. i dont give a ****

    4 vote(s)
    8.3%
  4. monkeys kidnapped my nieghbours and ate them

    8 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. Turret 49

    Turret 49 Doomer at heart

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    It appeared in Unreal first. :p
     
  2. BioBlizzard

    BioBlizzard YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE !

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    dodge jump, yes
     
  3. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Wandering spirit

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    True, but have you used 'behindview' from time to time? All the good-playing maps have a weird scale; they have to be more open just to allow these long dodgejumps.
    It does not give you an advantage in combat: you forget the enemy has exactly the same movements to his disposal.
    This is the main concern, indeed: onslaught. Without this move, infantry loses a lot of its position. I'm fairly sure that's the main reason the hoverboards will be in UT3, but it's very hard to predict how it'll turn out. :hmm:
    As you noticed, I disagree. Here's the reason:
    more movement options = higher learning curve

    Think about it...the harder it will be to become good at it, the more people will drop out before they have learned everything (I'm rather curious to the number of ppl that stopped playing UT200x because they just couldn't keep up with "that hacker that jumped away from everything I fired and moved twice as fast as me").
    On the other hand, the trick is to get better at what you already know. Checkers and chess have a fairly simple concept, yet the books on how plays can be made can fill entire bookshelves. That's where the key to a good game is hidden: not in adding more moves, but by making sure that the ones you have interact well with each other.
    Movement tricks also increase the defensive play, which is showcased perfectly in 'pro' matches.

    No...I'm glad they're cutting back on the floatiness of the UT200x games. I'd even remove the double jump as well, if I had the choice.
     
  4. Shroom-FX

    Shroom-FX Basshead

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    I <3 dodge jumpin and wish they'd keep it for 2k7, but like T2A said they should improve running speed to avoid having to keep DJin around the map. This would bring a nice balance of good pace to the game while still be able to do some tricky moves for tight situations. Also double jumps should be feskin thrown out the window, they're completely pointless.
     
  5. dub

    dub

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    Other way to see that would be:
    more movement options = higher learning curve = more depth (ie. longer lasting as there is more to learn)

    Dunno how much you should cater for the players who are'nt willing to put time into learning new stuff. Seems to me that if you always catered for those kind of people gaming would progress slowly?
     
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Just look in the server browser for 2k4 and you can see the answer to that yourself. If Epic has any hope of drawing in the old school community as well as bringing over the 2kX communities, they HAVE TO nerf the movement and make the game easier to play for casual players. Otherwise by a year into 2k7's life it will be yet another ghost town with only stupid demo servers to play on.
     
  7. briach

    briach ಠ_ಠ DaReTaL ಠ_ಠ

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    Yeah I hate double jumps. It makes midair projectile damage very random. The only good thing it did for the game was the dodge jump.
     
  8. nuttella

    nuttella Scare

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    No I think double jumps are perfectly reasonable. I always find it annoying when I can't reach a ledge that's chest high, when I could easily pull myself up if I had functional arms. If jump-crouching worked like in Quake/HL that would be ok too.
     
  9. CyMek

    CyMek Dead but not gone.

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    Dodge jumping and movement is important, but it's too important in UT2004. I remember back when UT2004 first came out and there were still a lot of noobies, I could easily win most CTF or AS games I played. Not becasue I could frag better. I was used to playing instagib, so I pretty much blew at hitting people with non-lg weapons. It was beasue I could move twice as fast as everyone else.
     
  10. SiN-BiN

    SiN-BiN New Member

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    Depending on if thats UT 2004 your talking about there, then yes they are. In fact, they use the same engine
     
  11. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    A good mantling system is better than double jump, IMO...

    Personally, I'd rather see particularly nerfed dodge jumping (not wall dodge jumping) back and double jump gone.
     
  12. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    The Faster speed makes Dodgejumping unnecessary, plus it contributed to the "Floatiness" of the past two installments.
     
  13. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    What I mean is that I'm used to dodgejumping everywhere but I almost neve double jump because it's retarded. A well nerfed dodge jump along with the removal of wall dodge jumping would completely reduce the amount of floatiness. Dodge Jumping could just as easily only move you 5 uus farther than just dodging, for all I care.
     
  14. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    I still stand by my original opinion on this. No double jump at all. There are basically 3 times at which you can do a mid air jump, and all of them should be removed. I'd rather them do something A) more realistic, and B) more useful, like a roll dodge.

    Wall Kick :tup:
    Dodge :tup:
    Mid air jumps :tdown:

    A sprint wouldn't be bad, but with a UT style dodge, not really necessary. I prefer fast movement taking multiple keypresses, opposed to a hold, or something toggleable. Would be too exploitable in combat otherwise. Like quake, but not as hardware dependent, or as surrealistically fast.

    In UT you could gain plenty of long distance speed by dodge cycling. I'd even welcome back a bit of a boost dodge, if you couldn't jump in the middle of it, making it super fly-tarded. Multiple wall kicks would be cool too. If they do the trajectory right on them, then maybe you could do some traingle jumping in some places, or best of all, mutiple angle changes in mid distance falls.
     
  15. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula New Member

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    Anyone that wouldn't love to see multiple wall-dodging has no soul tbh.
     
  16. DrDoomed

    DrDoomed New Member

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    i never really noticed tbh but i do know i like being able to get somewhere fast. is shield jump and a puny wall jump the only way u wanna get around?

    they didnt need to take out dodge jump u could just choose not to use it then everybody is happy





    As i said if used right. even pros do it fom time to time

    hoverboard cant be used to fight and if u get hit while using it u fall off. plus it must take time to switch to the board and if say a manta is heading straight for u , do u have that kinda time. with a dj u could even let of afew shots while dodging out the way. It's been said that walking speeds are faster so u might have a chance to walk then dodge but wont vehicles also be faster in compensation?

    i think learning is a good thing, it sets the standards between n00b and pro. Is it really so hard to tap the key twice and hit the spacebar?

    noobs prefer onslaught anyway , where movement isnt even a real issue as opposed to dm. and anyway If a guy leaves a game because he cant double tap a key then hit space bar he never woulda amounted to much anyway.

    by reducing 2k7 back to UT99 ur turning all the pieces into pawns.. if u noticed in chess each piece has a different move and it even takes time to master what they do. dj isnt some complex art its really very simple. the more moves u have the closer to the depth of chess it may become.


    and some say defence is the best offence.

    just changing the grav woulda been decent enough
     
  17. nuttella

    nuttella Scare

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    The problem with UT2004 is that the difference is too big. It is far too easy for someone with good reaction to avoid any damage whatsoever from projectiles and combos, and renders projectiles completely useless against hitscan in the hands of a skilled player. This has driven a lot of people away from UT2004. I like dodge jumping too, but I'd rather have more people to play with.
     
  18. Bullet10k

    Bullet10k New Member

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    Doomed has no idea what hes talking about.

    Yea lets all be able to dodge jump jump jump dodge jump wall dodge jump. Learning is a good thing, and sets the standards between noob and pro. They don't need to limit it to only dodge jump, you could have dodge jump jump jump dodge jump wall dodge jump and you could just choose not to use it and everybody is happy. Is it really so hard to double tap movement keys and press jump multiple times?
     
  19. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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    The learning curve in 2k4 is too high as it is, if the fancy smancy moves are kept in the learning curve will be just as high and it will seem just as complicated as 2k4 is. That won't help the shelf life of 2k7 as it narrowed players down in 2k3/2k4.
     
  20. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    Very true.

    Also, if the UT2k4 movements stayed for UT2k7, all the folks who have played UT2k4 will have a huge advantage right from the start. The folks that see UT2k7 and decide to give the UT franchise a try for the first time would be at even more of a disadvantage right from the start. A large majority of them would give up because they can't keep up, and the community would be right back to having just the few faithful.

    Flattening the learning curve is good for the health of the community.
     

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