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DM lame?

Discussion in 'Original Unreal Tournament' started by Porn_Star, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. I AM{skullface}

    I AM{skullface} metrosexual

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    Wow, that sucks Stillborn. :( It's too bad that lots of good players these days have those attitude. That player prolly got sick of being beat up by really good players, so dropped in a pub so he could kick ass. Lame.

    Heh, Still, I just swore off CTF. Never again will I play that mod. I just can't stand going to fight someone and have the xloc away from me. :) When I first started UT, I loved CTF, but that mod has come so far, and is so complicated now, that I can't play it. To much vanishing, hiding, map knowledge, hammer/jump tricks going on for me.

    I'd rather play 1vs1, 2vs2 dm, or tdm, where there is just you and the guns you can pick up. :)

    That's just me though heh.

    -I_AM{skullface}
     
  2. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Wow, someone accusing the RL of being spamabble (not that I don't agree, but I think it's a first for me to see)...

    ...

    You don't even know. I play with a guy that when he has goo, I run. I'm not bad with it, but this guy is sick. It's all about lead, and distract. As well, trapping, and springing with another weapon. Goo is nasty, and does more damage then anything but a loc or deemer. More then lethal in the hands of a pro.

    That is so me. I love that gun. I take out belts with it online, 'cause if you can hit well, they can't line a shot up. It's great. I like it in RA too, mad trash to be talked after a kill with that.

    As well, the way he descibed dealing with the spammers tells me his is an experienced dm'er, and knows this.

    That's a part of DM, 'nuff said.

    Ditto. If you don't spawn kill in DM, that guy you spared with screw you every time. There is a flow to DM, and you have to sustain it to do well. Not being spawn killed, as well is a skill all it's own. Step one, don't have the Enforcer in hand. The rest is another post...

    I love peak for that. I've walked outta that map a winner with 45 hammer kills, in a timelimit game with 16 people in it. Hammer jump to the amp for that fag camping the belt :D.

    But if anyone thinx the hammer is spam, just stop playing this game, you're not worthy of it.

    I think my idea's of spam differs from most peoples. I get sick of spam complaints. Deal with it. I recently started trying out RA:UT, and my gawd, I've never seen so many whiners in one server. You can't grab flak in that mod, you are a noob immediately. Fire more then two combos in a row, or two alt shocks in a row, you're spamming. In the mean time, you can do no wrong with the RL, and it's all skillz with that :rolleyes:. Then they pull snipe, and spam the §hî† outta that... which is so lame with differenciating pings in that type of game...

    At any rate, I think spam is when somone is holding down the fire button with no intention of differenciating it any time soon. Dropping what I call Random Rockets, Grenades, or my old U1 pattented "Random act of Flak", is just another part of any game that has the word frag associated with it. If I pass by a sweet spot, and know people are in that spot alot, I don't look, I fire.

    What I hate, is that camper fire razorz into a room, not moving, or that guy who just try's to keep his Xhair on you holding two things down, moveforward, and fire, with flak in hand. Holding down prime fire on goo is a lil lame too, but not nearly as bad. Camping, or running with snipe, and using it to the fullest extent of it's Rate of Fire, lame... no aim, just playing the numbers, fire 10 shots, one will hit em... The rest of the guns are pretty balanced. But again, you learn to deal with it. It's DM.
     
  3. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    About CTF...

    Like there is any less spam in CTF? CTF get's the worst spam of all. Loc Spam. It's always there, and Ilove the thing, don't get me wrong, but they could cut the Rate of Fire on that thing in half again, maybe even twice.

    I mean, I use that thing a lot, and never fire it as fast as some people do on that game. Unless my aim is elevation, I don't telleport to a disc, untill it's close to the ground.
    • You cover more ground
    • You have better awareness that way.
    As well, if trying to frag with it, I do long, legit attemtps, leads, and the occasional runinto somone, and shoot-pull, but never throwing more then once a second-ish...

    DOM is better, admitted, I love that game, but no one knows how to run a DOM server. A few rules...

    • No Score limit.
    • 12 min games.
    • 3 Teams.
    • Weapon stay always on.
    • CliffyB maps are better to open.

    I played on a 3 team server once online, and was instantly hooked. I won't play it any other way now, and this is why I don't play it online. Last I looked, 2 servers were 3 team, and 1 got traffic. It's sooo much better. It's like all teams have a base, and have to conquer one other one for a while longer then anyone else does it to win. 2 team, there might as well be only one capture point, and then fight over it. I just think it get's old that way. Other wise, I'd be so there.

    I'm still a DM buff though. TDM is cool too, not too much different, just gotta check targets, and be able to deal with the occasional double team, which I handle better then not.
     
  4. Metakill

    Metakill Inhumane

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    Spawn-fragging someone who just happens to appear in your area is one thing, but camping to do it is pretty lame.
     
  5. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Agreed.

    Definately, but...

    There is camping in DM, but there is no flow in camping. So yea, I definately meant in passing. I'm an anti-camping nazi. I hunt down campers, not seeing all else sometimes. That, though, is a different subject.
     
  6. SkaarjMaster

    SkaarjMaster enemy of time

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    Cool, you hunt down the campers making it a lot better for all of us, and in return we don't frag you! DM is so much better with everyone running around like crazed weasels!
     
  7. e-j

    e-j banned

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    whether or not people camp, spam, piston camp, whatever, the point of it is to get kills and frankly anyone's gonna try to kill anyway they can if they REALLY wanna win.
     
  8. SkaarjMaster

    SkaarjMaster enemy of time

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    Thanks for stating the obvious. The point is that we're trying to state things that are not good to do in DM to make it less lame. I hate camping, spawn camping, snipe camping, snipe spawn camping, and the site of any tents, firewood or RV's whatsoever!
     
  9. Virus{PCG}

    Virus{PCG} IF deathball$>ghey THEN GOTO speedball

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    I wouldnt go as far as saying DM is lame, but Id say it has had its day in FPS...

    Ive had UT since Xmas '98, with DM insta grabbing me from the word go. Back then, I used to risk getting into MAJOR trouble, using my university's PCs for a sweet ping on the Demon servers :D

    These days, Im completely hooked on the 'zeroping' version of insta, where aiming exactly where you see players on your monitor is the name of the game.

    Unfortunately though, despite having probably the most DM 'zeroping' servers ever (approx 15), it is very rare to find more than 15 players between them.

    I reckon the decline in popularity is down to things such as...
    Players are sick of the official maps, which are quickly rotated in a 30 frags server
    Some players have been playing DM for years, via Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake etc.
    Out of the common gametypes, DM is the easiest for aimbots to disrupt
     
  10. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    I wish...

    DM rox, and you just gotta take it for what it is. Some people seem to make it lame, but it's a part of it, unless you play with slected clientel. I play lan games once a week with my friends, and they are all fairly good players, no lameness there, but I still enjoy pubs DM, 'cause I know what to expect, and how to adjust my game.

    I wish that were the case. A lot of times, I'll get fragged 3 times in a row, 'cause I ignore all else, and they take advantage... bastards... try to do a public service, and that's what I get...
     
  11. Stillborn

    Stillborn PHEAR IS JUST ANOTHER 4 LETTER WORD...

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    Yeah, I really love the x-loc ;) Without it I'm truelly lost and I move like a hippo with a hockeystick shoved up it's butt...

    And in CTF you are considered a llamer if you spawnkill and ofteb get kicked... You should have a chance to actually understand where on the map you are before you die (unlike DM - all about killing). In CTF you might not even benefit on killing an opponent... It could serve your purpose to sneak in a base and just sneak out...
     
  12. gramps

    gramps New Member

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    Re: About CTF...

    heh well i xloc very fast sometimes, yet i have a very good awareness not only of where i am, but also where i'm heading. you make it sound like you should only use the xloc if you want to get into a higher place. you could do that of course, but then don't complain about people who will use it in order to get to the other side of the base faster.
     
  13. NeoNite

    NeoNite Worst hack fraud ever

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    :con: 98? ;)

     
  14. Sekhmet

    Sekhmet the Destroyer

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    not true i think, instagib LMS is easier for aimbots. LMS has most trouble with campers, i hate campers, but in LMS that's just a lame tactic, letting the others frag each other and then come in with 10 lives, while the others have 2. I hate that.
    And camping is a tactic, i can deal with em. I always hunt down the campers too, especially on deck 16, i hate the snipers. Once, i got behind two snipers on deck 16, they didn't notice me. I killed em both with dripping green load :D On TDM, some of my teamm8s were sniping on deck 16, didnt say em tho. they controlled the hall, but often get killed with a redeemer or so. ;)

    And it does suck to shoot when you don't have a target in sight, but when i hear them around the corner, I fire some rockets. hell, they do it to me too, so i get them back. And Peak does produce a lot of spamming, especially inside and when youre going down the stairs.

    I've seen some BioRifle players too, some are really good with it. They know when to use it, and it is a powerful weapon, it's rate of fire is awesome :cool: I just rarely use it in open spaces, just in hallways and rooms that aren't to big and open. It helps getting ppl of my tail to :)
     
  15. The_Inflictor

    The_Inflictor Honest and unmerciful

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    Hehe, thats funny. Just because its called Rocket Arena, you're judged badly if you use another weapon even if it suits the map or area you're in :rolleyes:


    What about maps like Curse][ where if you have the damage amp and flak you're guarenteed 5-10 frags? My personal opinion is that you're free to spam all you like.

    I'd rather show my skills in controlling powerups and exploiting them.
     
  16. Sekhmet

    Sekhmet the Destroyer

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    good point there Inflictor, just know the map. Who cares if you are called a spammer when you use a shock rifle/flak often, i don't. IMO good players don't say this, they know their tactics. They prolly only called him a spammer because he was good with the flak ;)
     
  17. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    There is only like 4 ways in that mod to kill with one shot, a tight combo, Full goo charge, 6 rocket cluster, and a flak bomb to the chest. I killed somone with the flak bomb on the last number of the round start count down. Yea, I think they were pissed. The funny thing was, I was using 70% alt fires. Flak bombs, and I was a spamming newb :rolleyes:.

    No, using it for transport is fine. I do that too. But...

    meaning I throw it, and watch it, and dont' throw, telleport, throw, tellport, repeat as fast as you can read how I've typed it. If you throw it 45° up/forward, and watch it until it almost hits the ground, then telleport, you get better speed.

    Knowing where you are, and where your heading isn't all that awareness is. That's mostly map knowledge. Awareness is knowing where I am, and if I see you spamming the loc, I know you have no intention of switching guns any time soon, and if the map allows (has an open enough space with you in it), I can lead that loc spam, usually with a combo, and you'll hardly know what's going on, 'cause the sound of my alt will be drowned out by the telleporting sounds, and you prolly won't see it at the angle I fire it from, because you'll have too much of that spawn sparkle clutting your peripheral vision. That is what I mean by less awareness spamming it.

    Christ, don't get me started on this again. I don't think there is any skills in "controlling powerups". It's the lamest way to mangle the flow of DM. On any servers I run, which mostly includes lan games, it's the first thing to get turned off. It's just as lame as "controlling weapons" when weapon stay is off.

    One of the things I love about that mod, despite the whiners that play it, is it's like configurable LMS. You can turn off guns, limit ammo to guns, adjust armor, and you can turn off that rocket bouncyness. But like LMS, you start with what ever guns the server gives you (defaulty all of them), the armor configured (defautly 100), and it's round based. You play to the frag, then start over. No spawn spam, no spawn kills, no powerups/pick ups. All even ground (provided pings are in the ball park). I love it on lan, we play all the time at our parties now. It just so happens that the losers online make it not worth while to me to play. Then there is idiot server admins. No one knows how to run a descent server of anything. It's an unwritten rule in that mod not to use the minigun, but it can be disabled. I've played on one server that dropped it's ammo to 10 (at least they did something). What kinda dumb §hî† is that? If it's not liked, disable it. I did. I also limited snipe ammo to 10. 10 sniper bullets are still capable of 1500 points of damage, it just takes skills when you have less.

    And that can be what that mod is all about. Skills. You always are on even ground. I'll refrain from bashing powerups here for I will change the subject matter of this post. I just deleted a couple paragraphs before I posted this that, well, I'll see if I can link to another post... my idea's have changed slightly since this, but... this post contains said opinions, feel free to read.

    And sorry If I sound like I'm selling RA, it's just new to me, and has some cool features/idea's.
     
  18. The_Inflictor

    The_Inflictor Honest and unmerciful

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    I think you misconstrued what I meant. I didn't necessarily mean camping around powerup points, I simply meant owning them - there's a difference:

    E.g. in Curse I can get the shield belt roam around, kill a few etc, and get back to the area just as it appears...same goes for the damage amp.

    Even so, should everyone stop using powerups even if they're there? If I see one, I'm going to have it before someone else does. Same goes for the weapons. In TDM, weapon stay is always off making controlling them an integral part of the game.

    You talk about "flow" yet there is more to DM than simply walking around with the fire button pressed. There's strategy and tactics, knowing the map backwards (literally), the jumps/dodges and little secrets. If I do a hammer jump in Liandri to get the amp whilst everyone is busy trying to get the redeemer, is that lame?

    Without having a dig, not everyone adears to your idealistic viewpoint on DM. On pubs, people have to make do with what they've got. Its knowing the fine line between doing what you can to win or implementing your ability without resorting to lameness/cheese.
     
  19. Peregrine

    Peregrine Death from above

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    I haven't really noticed it getting worse, Pornie.
    So may good points in this I don't know where to begin.
    My definition of spam is never letting go of your LM button. Regardless of which weapon. (Agree with Aenubis).

    Yeah. Me 2. The ripper rox. I spent one night using that as my primary weapon. Got real good with it. I even got my first online-non-redeemer-related M-M-M-M-Monster kill with it. I was popping heads off like Dandelions!! :) Hehehe Only the last ripper kill in my Monster Kill sequence was a richochet. All the rest were one shot, popped head! Luckily there were 12 people on that server, so there were plenty of heads to pop off! :) No one called me a 'spammer' that night!
     
  20. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    I'm not saying that timing powerups isn't a skill, I'm not saying that you're camping them if you get them as soon as they spawn. I'm saying that "controlling powerups", in having them all the time is not a skill I care to have, or think anyone should brag about. I turn them off, because they can be dominated. I don't think there is as much skill involved in aquiring items, as there is in what you do with them once you get them, and hence being able to keep other people from them is lame, because they don't ever get a chance to be on even ground with you. When you "control powerups", you don't win the game, the powerups do, IMHO.

    My ideal rules for a skill game are as follows in DM...
    • Weapon Stay On.
    • No Powerups Mutator On.
    • No Redeemer Mutator On.
    • 0 Frag limit.
    • 12 min Time Limit.
    The time limit and lack of frag limit just make it more fun. Sudden death overtimes are cool, and frag limit games go to fast, at least when I'm in them... but most people in pubs aren't that good, so...

    And as you can imagine, this opinion is also what has lead me to like RA so much lately, and on that, you can read a couple of my previous posts explaining why. Further more, I don't think this is the thread to get into the powerups discussion. It's been done before, I linked to it, again, feel free to read.
     

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