DM-CloudWarDemo

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

AlexanderII

Ready to play Duke Nukem?
Dec 20, 2001
85
0
0
www.conk.com
Hello, UT warriors, boys and girls out there!
Here are some new screenshots from Cloud Wars Demo (See my previoust post in the Showcase section for previous one):
Shot0031s.jpg
Shot0037s.jpg

Shot0044s.jpg
Shot0051s.jpg

Top view:
Shot0051.jpg

Try to figure out how the bots descend to the bottom without a translocator! ;)
Shot0054.jpg

You've got to try this map!
Shot0063.jpg

What? Are you still here? What are you waiting for, download the map from my home site http://www.conk.com/world/alexkh/ut.htm
and tell me what you think of it. ;)
:eek: Warning: for hardcore players only!
 

AlexanderII

Ready to play Duke Nukem?
Dec 20, 2001
85
0
0
www.conk.com
If you only saw a "box with skybox", then you saw nothing. This is a perfect skill mastering level. In it's seeming simplicity there is a great potential of learning something new from the gameplay, which is a rare opportunity, since most of the maps are made just to show someone's ability to read easy tutorials about fancy special effects and create as many rooms as possible.

And please, don't spoil my thread with junk sayings of the kind "I didn't play your map, but it's crap!". I've heard very good responses about this map in other forums and I don't see any reason apart from jealousy for such aggressive negative behavior.

Regards,

AlexanderII
 

Hourences

New Member
Aug 29, 2000
5,050
0
0
40
Belgium/Holland/Sweden
www.Hourences.com
he wasnt that cruel by saying its a box :), you posted the map here, its called playtesting, so we say what we think, and in this case i think that this a starters map,

there is a great potential of learning something new from the gameplay, which is a rare opportunity

gameplay is not good :) i can tell that by looking at the shots, you have no z fragging, you have no sound things to enhance gameplay, no good itemplacement, you just have 5 big places with weapons, and roads between, thats not leet gameplay :)

you post it here, we say our thought, if you dont want to hear the bad parts, dont post it :) just keep mapping, mapping needs time, it takes long to make good maps, you dont learn it just like that

and i didnt said this because im jealous :p
 

AlexanderII

Ready to play Duke Nukem?
Dec 20, 2001
85
0
0
www.conk.com
I thank you for your participation and explanation of things I did not understand. Well, sometimes it's hard to understand what a person means by saying only a couple of words.
But still:
* this is not just a "box". I won't take that. This is a fortress of rock with 4 posts on the perimiter and an armory in the center, which is connected to all posts with metal bridges". Should I make it the map name so nobody could say that this is a box?
* Yes this is PLAY TESTING forum. Not "look at screenshots and say what you think" testing forum.
Yes, I agree, I'm a starter, this is my first for Unreal engine map and I made it in one week or so by converting a custom multiplayer map from Duke 3d. But you missed the point. Tell me, do you actually play the game or the only thing you do is mapping? I've seen a lot of beautiful levels and some of them are very complex. They have tons of rooms and colors and doors of all kinds, sounds, glass, sprites, visual effects, portals, and some of them are real masterpieces of map making. But are they good to play?
I' ve been playing 3d games for many years now, many kinds of them. Wolfenstein, Doom, DoomII, Quake, Heretic, Duke3d, Unreal, UT, Quake3, Half Life, Tribes 2, RTCW, and many others like Blood e t.c. But as far as the multyplayer Deathmatch is concerned, I never had the same
gaming pleasure as I had in Duke 3d over the modem and later over the Internet. It was the most flexible engine and gameplay for that time and the most daring and insping multiplayer levels (my opinion as a player) were made for Duke Nukem 3d. Cloud wars was one of them.

Today there are lots of rules and regulations on what a map should look like and any deviation is not tolerated. I must say that none of the DM maps that came with the game are appealing to me so I've been mostly playing CTF (on Coret and Faces) and sometimes domination on various levels. I don't expect you to match my taste, but first opinion is always most significant for those looking to the forums and it creates the base for all the following posts. And here I got that slap right away.

...And now you are saying that the gameplay is no good. Because there is no "z fragging" (whatever it is) no sounds and because I didn't put all the big guns in hard-to-reach places? Is that what makes the gameplay in your opinion?
You want me ao learn to do maps similar to those that came with the game? I don't like most of them. They are examples of that "old architect school" approach. They're good to look at and have nice screenshots, but is it really fun to play them?

And also, I must admit, I don't really like mapping too much, especially in the UnrealEd environment where so many things are not obvious and you have to read loads of how-to's and tutorials even if you've done mapping before for a different engine. I don it only because I'm not really satisfied with the maps already in the game. Now this is the point some of you missed. And I'm sorry I did not clarify it beforehand.
Regards,

AlexanderII
 

Hourences

New Member
Aug 29, 2000
5,050
0
0
40
Belgium/Holland/Sweden
www.Hourences.com
ok so now i played it, i found an excessive overdose of weapons in an boring simple enviroment, woich was nice to frag a bot in once, but not twice
your reaction is typical, you are saying that its all just opinion, well it is, but not like this, you can have something cool but not for your taste, or something wich is really cool, you jsut have a starters map, you dont need opinion to see that
you have 2 parts in mapping, the theoretical part, the part where you need too understeand how you make something and how the ed works, and the real part, where you make themes, the real map, the understeanding of the principe, the idea behind it, and that last part takes a long time too learn, i dont care what people on other forums say, i know what i see, never ever ever let your map beta test by an friend, or in general some one who knows nothing about mapping, the only thing they will say is **** YOUR ****ING LEET DUDE, GO WORK BY EPIC, i can substract a cube in ued, and post a pic on some ut forum, and theyll prolly say im leet then, that is not beta testing :)

besides that, so what if its an map from duke3d ? i played duke3d a long time ago, but times changed, and we need super leet maps now, both for gameplay as grapichs, there is no such thing as mp maps dont need grapics, yes they do, whats the big differnce between a game from this moment (lets say avp2 or rtcw) and a game from 2-3 years back or more ?
no not the gameplay, the only thing we have now is more and more, more maps, more weapons, ... but the general thing stays, but the thing that changed hugely are the grapichs, so you cant say grapichs arent important, they are equal too gameplay, in mp maps you need less grapichs then in sp yes, but still more then enough, your enviroment has too be real leet, without harming the gameplay, wich also has too be truly leet
in your map i cant find grapichs, nor gameplay, Gameplay from duke3d is not the same as UT, UT has more stuff, z fragging ( differnces in height) for instance, and the standard raised very high, and certainly in games like UT,
you have 5 spaces, with small roads between, and a ****load of weapons on it, i really dont know what you call gameplay, but that is not gameplay, and the big guns doesnt need to be in hard too reach places, but just in challeging ones, they call it balancing the game, and thats excatly what they did in the original ut maps

and the unreal engine is substractive geometry, its jsut differnt :) after a time youll get used too it and then it will own :)

take a look at folowing (davidm:p) links
http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/ownzme/ -> a few good small dm maps, they look quiet good and play good, that is what a good dm map has too be

http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/gameplay1.html -> gameplay tut1

http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/gameplay2.html -> tut 2

and now, youll get mad on me prolly :p
http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/rant1.htm > the typical image of an noob

and that was my post :)
 

AlexanderII

Ready to play Duke Nukem?
Dec 20, 2001
85
0
0
www.conk.com
Thank you for your reply, Hourences. I really appreciate the fact that we finally came down to a more specific discussion rather
than just an exchange of emotions. That's a good point, for me personally, I don't believe that the truth can be born in the
argument.
I also don't like separating theory from practice. My approach is to keep them one whole thing. I am a programmer. When I look at a program I start picturing in my mind how would I make such a program if I had time for it. I know how Unreal Ed works, and I find the interface very poorly-planned to say the least. It is UGLY. The guys saved some time/money on creation of Unreal Ed. I'll not talk more on that in this post. If you want I'll elaborate on that in my next one.
I would prefer real players to test my map rather than conservative old-school neatfreaks, the so-called "mappers" who sometimes hardly even try they map before starting to work on a new one. They like the maps made in the way they're used to making maps so they praise those who went through their school. That's what always tend to happen and that's some sort of monopoly.
Duke 3d also used the substractive geometry.

Now, I see you've done some research to show me some good maps. I thanks you very much for that. Let's see...
Unfortunately, I couldn't d/load some maps. Can you please post DM-Amon, DM-1on1-Revenge and DM-Aberrance? Don't send them to my e-mail since there's like 2 MB space in there :(

DM-SunTzu
A very large map with very few weapons. Nice graphics. Gloomy colors and strange sounds create a melancholic mood and make me sick. I feel that if I'll play this map long enough I'll go nuts. This map has good screenshots to put on a wall, but I wouldn't spend any ink on that. If somebody likes spinning mileage looking for weapons and players on this map, please let me know. Who knows, but maybe I missed some major concept? And why the bots always end up under that elevator?
Now, a note for those concerned: if I pour some sh!t on somebody I don't do it just for the sake of doing it. And if that looks like self-pimpage, let it be that, although I haven't made anything too great so far and it makes little sence anyway. My main purpose is to give you a look from a different perspective, from a perspective of a gamer rather than a mapper, to the maps that are widely considered do be "cool" and appear on fashionable "ownage" sites. As an author of these opinions I only authorize you to quote any of them together with this note.

DM-Seraphim
I viewed this map before and I have it already. I like this one. It reminds me one of maps in quake3 map package, but this one is
more elaborate (= my opinion again).

DM-1on1-DavidM
I played this map 1on1 with Archon 10-5 I won from the first try (Adept skill for bot). It gave me a little dizziness and headache
though because I had to be running non-stop to find weapons and then again to find the opponent on this large map. I somehow ended up going in circles (hence the dizziness). Whoever ended up having the cannon generally was the winner. I must admit, I'm not too good at shock rifle. And also the elevators are in most unpredictble places and in some places where you would expect an elevator(dead ends) there are none. Whatever, if you're prone to dizziness and like to run alot this map is for you. Me - I still feel the headache.

DM-Strogg
This map is better in that here you don't have to rin in circles, but you can also run in 8's. And it's smaller, which is eventually good because you don't want to comb large fields to find your opponent. But then I don't see any reason why Cloud Wars is totally "no good", and in that map there is much more excitement and also much more opportunities to train new skills such as movement precision, environment geometry feel, concentration on the target, ability to dodge on a narrow path (Cloud Wars is best for that - try to find a better one!). If you don't believe you can actually dodge on a narrow path in CloudWars - look at the bots. You can also jump over the incoming rocket. Even more possibilities with the boots, did you ever try them there?

DM-Alpu-Tourney
I played this map 4 times with 5 bots. What I saw was basically bunch of people running around with enforcers helplessly humiliated by a couple of other guys who actually had guns. I was lucky that the bots at adept level even when they have a gun still generally don't know how to use it,and this gave me an opportunity to win the game from the 4'th game by shooting a guy with a rocket launcher in the head to get the rocket launcher and start kicking ass of those who were not that lucky. Maybe the idea of this map was "He who knows where all the guns are located wins", but I imagine, that with more players you would have little chance to find them at their spawning locations. Good map for those who appreciates the power of enforcer (thank God there is no knives and scissors in this game or this map would get really sick and messy). Again those who like this map so much, tell me please what is so particularly special about this map? And please, don't start writing opuses about the lighting and artistic touch. I'm interested mostly in the gameplay since after playing 3d games for many years all those special effects and funcy textures start looking banal. It's like that toy - a semisphere of glass with water in it, so you see some simulation of snowstorm whenever you turn it upside down. I hope you get my idea right.

DM-Arial-SE
Again, it took me long time to figure out where the bots actually get their guns. Then I realized that the guns actually appear in
a couple of places. I even saw some powerups a couple of times. I played with 5 bots and it seems that in few-weapon maps like this one your main weapon stays the enforcer, and to get something bigger you have to kill with your enforcer the poor guy who has a gun. This level is perfect for fast games since there are powerful weapons and not much health. Best for those who like to respawn. Also more pictures of beautiful naked ladies on the walls would make this map more interesting. But then I'd play this map alone without bots...


DM-Adversity
On this map with 5 bots I didn't have to use enforcer all the time. And that's a good thing about it. But on the other hand this
map actually suffers from the very "Room-corridor-room" syndrome, explanation of which you just threw in my face. By the way, I have read those tusorials before, and find them very limited. They basicly explain only a tiny bit of what actually happens in the game. Yes there are traps and the guy who knows the map always has an advantage over the one who knows it less. By making this kind of traps traps you just exploit the advantage of better point of view principle. If you abuse using that principle alot, you end up with a map on which that one wins who knows the map better, but not the one who is more skillful. When I was on the Duke Nukem

ladder I tried to avoid playing maps I don't know for this reason. There were always maps at which I was better and maps at which I totally sucked. So finally I tried to stick to those maps at which I was better. And this screws up the ladder system totally. So I'd like to have some simple maps where some particular skill can be tested and base the championships on those different
categories. In Duke nukem there were levels to practice shotgun skill, rocket launcher skill and so on, so if you sucked at aiming,
you could train more on shotgun skill map, for example. That is very important, because it makes the difference between random
playing and effective learning, getting something out of playing the game. That is one of the numerous things I wanted to point
out. I noticed you quote DavidM so much. He's just a regular mapper. To me his maps look very similar, although I appreciate his work and major contribution to modern map making.

That would make a good essay. I hope this will contribute to diversity of people's views at map making in general and so-called stereotypes, strict boxed-in models and some too-limiting standards imposed that currently decide which maps are good and which are bad by overestimating the importance map's look compared to its purpose, the reason for existance, if you want, the reason why the maps you have already on your hard drive is still not enough, just because it gives you an opportunity to learn a new skill, to brush up on some particular playing technique or is it just a piece of art? Maybe there is a point of separating these maps into different categories, since the parameters of evaluation and their importance would be very different?
Best Regards!

AlexanderII
 

Hourences

New Member
Aug 29, 2000
5,050
0
0
40
Belgium/Holland/Sweden
www.Hourences.com
the other maps are on www.nalicty.com prolly :)

thing 1, normal ut players know **** about mapping, like said before, im a hardcore ut player, im playing ut now for 2 years in clan, i did like erm 100 clanwars now or something, and im telling you that a cube is boring to fight in, why do you think deck16 is 1 of the most played maps ?, yes its ugly, you get that, but it has gameplay, it isnt a boring flat cube, you can put strategie in it, what you are saying is that its unfair that the map is like thos emaps, cause then the player who knows the most about the map will win, yes offcourse, but thats the same with the weapons, the player with the best weapon wins, the player with the most health wins, its all unfair :) and thats normal, if you want only fair maps, then you are saying we only need 1 map, a cube, cause thats fair, so why are we mapping then ? there are 6000 ut map., you need training for a map, just like you train yourself on the weapons, the movement, the predictabilty, ...
thats what makes a map intersting, you can play wiht your victim if you know the map good, and thats fun, and you cant do that in a flat map, for instance, in dm-1on1-davidm1, i like that map alot for 1on1s (its totaly not big like you said, you have no idea of size then:)), folowing tactic stuff is cool, this makes the map not boring anymore and will give it a high playabilty, the so called ''know the map'' is called skill, and a real player needs and has skill, your cube doesnt require skill, it just requires aiming, take the sniper rifle, and shoot him, good for practice, not cool for always

so i spawn, i jump in the water, i run across the borders, why ? cause the water wouldnt give my position away, i grab the armor, and run back over the sides, i go too the big elevtor, i step on it, i immidialty jump, so i fly trough the air, the enemy is suprised, and while im in the air i shoot him, i land on the middle small thing, i grab the body armor, i jump to the shock, i dodge away, i shock my enemy, -> 1 frag
i dodge/move on to the other elevator, near the rl and the window with the city behind it, i step on the elevator, i liftjump again, i fly trough the air, i land on the second floor, i grab the rocketlauncher and his ammo, i jump and fly trough the air, land in the window in the wall, i grab the thightpads, i turn around, , lod up the rl, dodge, and fire my rockets at the guy on the floor below me, -> second frag
and so on. it are these tricks that make it cool, playing a cube with 200 bots in it everyday is **** boring after a few hours, but its leet trough jump trough ythe air, suprise and hunt down the enemy,and a real player would want this too, a real hardcore player, those guys that want cubes too frag in know **** about a game, and so called gameplay, cause this ask skill,and a hardcore player only goes for skill, skill on everything, every weapon, every move, every map

and offcourse the bots didnt had enough weapons in maps like alpu tourney :), tourney > small 1on1 type dm maps, not ment for so much players, so duh, there arent enouh weapons, and duh you have too keep running to collect ammo, play instagib if you dont want ammo, you are suppose to stay on the move, if you sit still you camp and your dead,
tzunsut(cant type the name:p) is good, its a bigger map, so you need more players, thats normal, the bigger the map the more players, but look the possibile strategies you can put in it, how you can play with your enemy there, same goes for all the other maps, if you loose your way, thats not the map his prob, thats cause you dont know the map, you didnt know the UT weapons when you first playe dit, you learned them and mastered them, now do the same with the map and get skilled on it
and in ut you have mutators :) the shock arena, replace al weapons by shocks for instance :)

let your map being reviewed at a couple good ut review sites, like NC, sunspire, .... not much left actually :) and then come back with your score and the review, believe me, it wont be an 8 or a 7 or something close to it :), and tell me why you had that low score, what did the review said what was wrong

cant think of anything else :)
 

DavidM

Designer
Oct 28, 1999
724
0
0
41
www.muenni.ch
"Warning: for hardcore players only!"

are you sure? :)

"And also the elevators are in most unpredictble places and in some places where you would expect an elevator(dead ends) there are none."

that's stupid
you gotta know a map when you play it, maps are not supposed to be newbie friendly

"To me his maps look very similar, although I appreciate his work and major contribution to modern map making. "

is this 'cause people rip me like crazy? :D
 
Last edited:

Tonnberry

Untouchable
Nov 29, 2001
231
0
0
41
Hamburg
www.planetunreal.com
"DM-Alpu-Tourney
I played this map 4 times with 5 bots"

doh

it's a 1on1 map and as you may guess right, you have to play it with ONE opponent
and if you play it with one bot you won't have the problem that you can't find a weopon 0_o

same in adversity
playing that map with more than 1 opponent is more than stupid
 

AlexanderII

Ready to play Duke Nukem?
Dec 20, 2001
85
0
0
www.conk.com
Hello everybody!
I'll try to be specific.
Hourences:
the player who knows the most about the map will win, yes offcourse, but thats the same with the weapons, the player with the best weapon wins, the player with the most health wins, its all unfair :)
Let me disagree with you right here. Who exactly wins depends on many factors. Making maps a bunch of traps just enlarges the gap between the players depending on the knowlege of the map. And if you want to find out who is the better player, you'll both have to practice it over and over. Having 6000 maps, I'm sorry, dude, I would get gray hair before I could start participating in the championships. Why do I have to explain every word? Can't you see what I'm taking about? Whole my point was the diversity, I never said that every map must be a box. My point was, why when I bring my map to a play testing forum, first thing I hear is something like "I didn't play it but it sucks"? That was my point. And my other point was that Cloud Wars map is not just a box. What is so hard to understand? How many times do I have to repeat that again?

Hourences:
let your map being reviewed at a couple good ut review sites, like NC, sunspire, .... not much left actually :)
I've done that. And yes, that's a good point, there is not many review sites left. Maybe because they got sick of reviewing all the same thing again and again? There is not much diversity actually. That's another my point. Most of the levels are in those gloomy brownish tones and they have the same old elements described in tutorials repeating and repeating again. That's why I didn't like Quake, by the way, apart from it's ****ty engine. Even RTCW kicks ass compared to the UT, because it's different, even being based on the Quake3 engine. It's totally different! Am I right at least here? Why did so many people switch from UT to RTCW? It's on the same old Quake3 engine...

My another point is that you should not assume that all UT players are skilled players. Let the poor newbie to catch up with the skills of aiming, dodging, "dancing" in circles - basic skills before introducing him into a huge labirinth with loads of traps and no chance of passing somewhere without being detected.

DavidM:

"Warning: for hardcore players only!" are you sure?
Yes, I'm sure! ;)
"And also the elevators are in most unpredictble places and in some places where you would expect an elevator(dead ends) there are none."
that's stupid
you gotta know a map when you play it, maps are not supposed to be newbie friendly
that's not stupid, see my point explained above ;)
"To me his maps look very similar, although I appreciate his work and major contribution to modern map making. "
is this 'cause people rip me like crazy?
No that is because I know how much pain in the as is working with UnrealEd. And I've seen you've made so many maps so the government should give you the badge of honor and start paying the pension in double size. ;))

and finally stop playing 1on1 maps with more than 1 opponent....:/
Excuse my great mistake. It's real shame to me now. I was not warned that link was to only 1on1 maps, and also in this private discussion we did not talk about 1on1 maps specifically. Now 1on1 maps, also called "duel" maps is a totally different topic for a discussion. It deservea a separate forum or something. First of all the whole point of a duel map is the fair situation for both players (that means, equal opportunity). Which implies a certain level of symmetry and maximum geometrical precision. Items like shield belt make the guy who is closer to it more advantageous. That's why the last map with Xan sucks as a duel map.

My dear friends, the map makers: when I will see a perfect duel map, I will scream aloud "I found it! I found a perfect duel map!" and maybe do some other stupid things... It does not have to be small and simple, but if it's big and complex, players often end up waiting for each other sitting in good sniping positions and after a while starting to talk like:
- Hey, where are you? Are you coming?
- No, you come here!
- Nah, I'm waiting for you. Come here and get killed!
etc...
In that map there's going to be a countdown so players can look around and prepare. When the count is over the transparent doors open at once and the one who kills first wins the game. Of course you can play after that for fun, but the situation is hard to be made fair from this moment for by the time you respawn you'll get 6 rockets landing at you.
That's a broad topic for a discussion and it draws me away from my main point. My main point is don't get too proud of yourself after maping for years. Let the poor newbie decide himeself upon his own original style. I know you've done lots of maps. But I just don't like your style of map making. I want something different. If there were enough maps I wouldn't start mapping in UnrealEd in the first place, for I don't like its ugly user interface. And Cloud Wars to me was an inspiration to learn all kinds of tutorials about UnrealEd, for I really like that map. I liked it in Duke 3d and I play it alot in UT. Too bad I can't play it with people :(

Best wishes to all my readers!

AlexanderII
 

Tonnberry

Untouchable
Nov 29, 2001
231
0
0
41
Hamburg
www.planetunreal.com
"players often end up waiting for each other sitting in good sniping positions and after a while starting to talk like:
- Hey, where are you? Are you coming?
- No, you come here!
- Nah, I'm waiting for you. Come here and get killed! "

players who do sh1t like this, are no 1on1 players in my eyes

they are just foolish
 

Hourences

New Member
Aug 29, 2000
5,050
0
0
40
Belgium/Holland/Sweden
www.Hourences.com
if you want more fair stuff, play RA :) rocket arena, there everyone starts with the same weapons, no powerups, ....

the map skill is important, why would you play want too play in this cube over and over, you know everything about it (actually nothing, there is simply nothing too learn about it, uninteresting), you learn nothing, and you know every move your enemy makes, cause its soo limited,a good map is cool too play, and youll play it again, and again, and again, ands every time youll see new stuff,
or you suprise your enemy, and at the end of the match your enemy didnt seem to know the map too well, so what does he do ? he goes playing more games in the map, until he knows it very good, ...

i can understeand you want too be differnt, but there are many ways to be differnt, your map is differnt yes, but in a bad way, its just bad made, thats a big differnce, maps like stustzna(unable to type) and brunel are differnt for instance, why, cause they made from old textures new ones, in a completely new theme for brunel, and tsunstu.... has an original theme, thats making a differnt map in a differnt way (and dont start with the'yes but that are grapichs, we dont need them'', thats crap, then there wouldnt be new games comming out, with new grapichs, and particles systems and 1000s of poly),
but yours is not made well, it are erm 20 brushes in total or something, its all brown, boring overal light, and the gameplay is dead, if you dont get the thing that a flat cube or, multiple cubes with roads between like youve made, its not cool too play in, then you are mapping for the wrong game

and yes quake 3 (and the rest:)) are very reperative games, but its your job to make it cool, and differnt, prob with ut is, its an old game, and almost everything has been done yet, but if you want, you find something new but not like this map, cause this is just dead simple starters stuff

a real hardcore player wont play a cube, see my point a few replys back

and yes you may decide your own style, but then dont say that youve made totaly new mapping style, or refreshing or something, cause it just isnt, many people made flat cubes and stuff, just boring, youll never get somewhere with cubes, only bad comments and bad reviews

but if it's big and complex, players often end up waiting for each other sitting in good sniping positions and after a while starting to talk like:
- Hey, where are you? Are you coming?
- No, you come here!
- Nah, I'm waiting for you. Come here and get killed!
etc...

erm, then we are not talking about hardcore players, then we are talking about total noobs, who dont even know the map they are playing, and then take the sniper and going to sit in some lame shaddows, waiting for some guy,who they cant even shoot cause he moves faster then them ....
none of the maps from the above link are soo big youll get lost, they are all quiet small, if you still get lost then thats your prob, you have too learnt he map, normal thing, like everything
and then dont start with, ''yes but you see thats why i made my map, cause you do all that''or something, thats crap too

im starting too talk non sence :) we have said kinda everything allready

hmm too much typpos, lets edit:)
 

AlexanderII

Ready to play Duke Nukem?
Dec 20, 2001
85
0
0
www.conk.com
Exactly, We've mentioned loads of stuff. Let's sum it up:

1) Cloud Wars is not just a box and a skybox. There's something inside. And if you don't like that - go home and stop loading this forum with nonsence.
2) There is lots you can learn on this map. Precision movement, flack cannon skills, advance aiming with a rocket launcher, dodging on a narrow path, jumping, hiding (while ducking). You can also explore the bottom to find some cool stuff. You can try to find out how the bots descend there without a translocator and try to do the same. There is a teleporter in the bottom. Did you find the redeemer and damage multiplyer? Answer this question before telling me that there is nothing to expore there.
3) This level is best played with the real player, although the bots still are not too bad at the godlike level.

I like this map myself and I'd like to find people to play it with.

Regards,

AlexanderII
 

Tonnberry

Untouchable
Nov 29, 2001
231
0
0
41
Hamburg
www.planetunreal.com
"Cloud Wars is not just a box and a skybox. There's something inside. And if you don't like that - go home and stop loading this forum with nonsence. "

so you just want people to kiss your @ss?

oh ok

d00d you ruXXz0r!!!!!11111
keep up the g00d w0rk!!!!1111
 

DavidM

Designer
Oct 28, 1999
724
0
0
41
www.muenni.ch
alexander posts can make your day
comedy gold!

"Did you find the redeemer and damage multiplyer?"

only hardcore maps use these items, and hardcore players would NEVER turn em off