Creationist vs Evolutionist
- Thread starter Luv_Studd
- Start date
-
Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.
Because the scientists were raised that way by their parents.
We all have a tendency to stick with what our parents taught us and to follow their example. Not saying rebellion doesn't occur, but if your claim is about people tending towards religion because of religion itself, then we should see a many more people choosing from the various religions available rather than sticking with the ones they were raised with.
Notice that this is also developed from a survival instinct. Young mammals will often observe their parents when they are young to develop survival skills before departing the nest. This is why, say, a bear surviving on garbage of a nearby town is not just bad because the bear may suffer, but because its cubs will learn that the only way to survive is rummaging through garbage.
It becomes even harder when rejecting a parent's belief may either anger the parent (disappointment and pressure to follow the way they were raised) or cause the child to stubbornly defend their beliefs out of an insecure fear that their parents raised them in a manner they find questionable (which would de-legitimize their parents in their own brain, even though rationally it should not affect their outlook on them). These examples are not a majority of the cases, but again, can influence people.
Basically, before most people even get to the point where they fail to separate their professional lives from their spiritual and have a personal existential crisis (because there is a conflict or contradiction between the two for whatever reason), your brain uses various self-defense mechanisms to justify your actions, way of life, and beliefs. People do not like finding out that they or their parents or something about how they have been operating their lives is contradictory/wrong/irrational.
Last edited:
That's fine, but I must say that it's almost completely meaningless and represents a total backing off of all the factual claims you've made to this point. If you agree that there is no knowledge or factual legitimacy in religion, and that it is merely a nice story to tell ourselves, then we have no disagreement.
TL;DR—I'll keep my science out of your religion if you'll keep your religion out of my science.
Last edited:
- "We must recognise that general views of life and the universe cannot be the products of increasing empirical knowledge, and that the highest ideals, which move us most forcefully, are always formed only in the struggle with other ideals which are just as sacred to others as ours are to us."
Weber, Max. The Methodology of the Social Sciences. 1949. 57
- "Under the pretence of civilization and progress, we have managed to banish from the mind everything that may rightly or wrongly be termed superstition, or fancy; forbidden is any kind of search for truth which is not in conformance with accepted practices"
Breton, André. Manifestoes of Surrealism.
- "I do not know exactly what we must believe, but I believe that we must believe! The eighteenth century did nothing but deny. The human spirit lives by its beliefs. Acquire faith through Christianity, or through German philosophy, or merely through enthusiasm, but believe in something!"
Germaine de Staël quoted in Artz, Frederick B. Reaction and Revolution: 1814-1832. 1963.
- "[Western] culture did its best in the way of degrading man to the level of a mere reflex mechanism, a mere organ motivated by sex, a mere semi-mechanical, semi-physiological organism, devoid of any divine spark, of any absolute value, of anything noble and sacred."
Sorokin, Pitrim A. Social and Cultural Dynamics. 1957. 628.
- "Modernity is radicalized into momentaneous change, into a continuous travelling, and thus its meaning changes. It gradually loses each substantial value, each ethical and philosophical ideology of progress that sustained it at the outset, and it becomes an aesthetics of change for the sake of change...In the end, modernity purely and simply coincides with fashion"
Jean Baudrillard quoted in Quoted in Heynen, Hilde. Architecture and Modernity: A Critique. 1999.
- "The whole modern conception of the world is founded on the illusion that the so-called laws of nature are the explanations of natural phenomena.
Thus people today stop at the laws of nature, treating them as something inviolable, just as God and Fate were treated in past ages. And in fact both were right and both wrong; though the view of the ancients is clearer insofar as they have an acknowledged terminus, while the modern system tries to make it look as if everything were explained"
Wittgenstein, Ludwig. Tractatus Logico-philosophicus. 1922.
wahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahahahah hh ahhahahahaahhaahahh hahahahhaahah
Lizard Of Oz
Demented Avenger
Because even the best educated and brightest among us cannot fully escape a lifetime of brainwashing.
remember they start the brainwashing young, too.
so young that you're defenseless.
so young that your foundation for religion precedes your foundation for logic.
no wonder it can be so hard to shake that bullshit.
so young that you're defenseless.
so young that your foundation for religion precedes your foundation for logic.
no wonder it can be so hard to shake that bullshit.
Yeah, because every person, highly educated or otherwise, only becomes spiritual due to early childhood brainwashing. In the end, the choice to be spiritual or not is an individual choice to make. It should matter not if a person chooses religion for inspiration or moral guidance, as long as that choice does not interfere with the lives of others.
Nobody here is calling for atheists to drop their personal choice, just to acknowledge and accept that not everyone makes the same choices in life. Just as much as extreme arrogance plays a part in the devout creationist belief in how and when the Earth was created, some hardcore atheists display the same level of arrogance in claiming that a person is brainwashed or otherwise ignorant if they have some faith in what or whom he believes to be a higher power than himself.
That is all I have to say here.
Nobody here is calling for atheists to drop their personal choice, just to acknowledge and accept that not everyone makes the same choices in life. Just as much as extreme arrogance plays a part in the devout creationist belief in how and when the Earth was created, some hardcore atheists display the same level of arrogance in claiming that a person is brainwashed or otherwise ignorant if they have some faith in what or whom he believes to be a higher power than himself.
That is all I have to say here.
This creationist is going to start remembering each of you in his prayers more often! I mean it too!
The hilarious irony being that Europe is now pretty much secular, while North America has turned into Jesus Land 2.0
There is actually zero irony there. The people who fled "persecution" in England were the Puritans. And by persecution, what they ACTUALLY meant was that they wanted to impose ridiculously draconian moral codes on everyone, and the Anglicans didn't want to be a bunch of jerks with sticks up their asses all of the time (and yeah, that's coming from the british...) and refused to play along--so the Puritans went to the new world where there was no government or reasonable people to stop them from their totalitarian policies.
Lizard Of Oz
Demented Avenger
I would expect nothing less from your garden variety smug atheist. In your own arrogance, you atheists have ignored one simple fact: science cannot fill a void in every person's life. For some strange reason, you fail to acknowledge that for many people, the intangible may be the only thing that gives them hope or solace. It isn't always driven by ignorance or "brainwashing" but for many it is driven by sheer desperation or lack of fulfillment by tangible means. Many people are spiritual because they find it to be a more practical path to personal joy or improvement of character. It is a personal and individual choice to make.
Why do you visit this forum? Do you not find all the fulfillment you need or want in life without it? You must not, because you post here quite frequently. Or, perhaps it is because you find that you have another group of folks that you can share common interests. Either way, I'm not criticizing your choice, just noting that these same reasons are why many individuals choose organized religion or adopt a spiritual lifestyle of some sort.
I don't think anyone here disagrees. The only problem is how you've chosen to present yourself:
I don't think you believe anything in this quote. It's a kind of reflexive religion-talk. In any case, this and the previous quote illustrate The Two Crotales. One wields pseudoscience as a weapon, the other believes religion is just a means to personal fulfillment. One pits religion against science, the other laments any comparison.
If you think religion is just a comforting bedtime story, you shouldn't present it like a superior variety of science. You shouldn't pretend that it can answer questions about the natural world. When you do that, you upset anyone who knows the first thing about science. You are, in effect, shrugging your shoulders at the foundation of all knowledge.
Last edited:
Except that the consoles vs PC arguments don't have a negative impact on actual education politics.
This is pretty much religion's #1 sin: fucking with others.
Protip: Develop your own moral code without any institution's guidance. Live your life by your rules and your own standards.
incorrect.
we acknowledge your security blanket.
we just don't feel the need to clutch one ourselves.
your feelings of comfort do not make your feelings true.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/humanity-forced-to-put-down-aging-god,35230/
Last edited: