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Colt commando

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by carnivore, May 6, 2001.

  1. Col.Sanders

    Col.Sanders New Member

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    I worded that poorly. I meant, that yes, drag varies with velocity, but you didn't mention that drag decreases as velocity decreases. So the bullet is loosing less velocity per second at 2000 fps than it was at 3000 fps.
     
  2. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    yes, it does decrease, I said that Drag is proportionnal to velocity, that means that wehn velocity decreases, drag decreasese too:)
     
  3. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    but does it decrease with the same proportions as the speed? If it does the effect will remain the same.
     
  4. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    it means that roughly :

    Drag=Constant*vĀ²

    so if velocity doubles, then drag is multiplicated by 4.

    and if velocity is cut in half, so drag is divided by 4

    PS:

    The constant is 0.5*Area*air density*a_shape_coefficient

    Area=(pi/4)*DiameterĀ²

    now the shape coefficient would probably be similar to a cone, that is roughly 0.5

    this is only valid for subsonic flows though and gets much more complicated for supersonic flow, although I don't remeber much about that...
     
  5. Col.Sanders

    Col.Sanders New Member

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    The point is, and these are totally made-up numbers, that at 1000 m/s, a bullet might shed 50% of it's velocity per second, but at 600 m/s, it may shed only 25% of it's velocity per second. So at 1000 m/s it is slowing at 500m/s per second, but at 600 m/s it is slowing 150 m/s per second.
     
  6. asmodeus

    asmodeus DB addict

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    hence the not straight curve
     
  7. 6mm

    6mm Shooting first..shooting some more......

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    FOR THE LOVE OF...

    For the love of Ice-Cream, INF TEAM PLEASE put in the M4A2 please please, soon, please please. Forget about the commando, we allready have 3 MP5s. Just please dont leave out the M4A2.
     
  8. Cardinal

    Cardinal Gun Enthusiast

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    Technically, NO M4A2 exists as far as the military concerned. It's a term invented by civilians, like the "M4A3"
    Of course Colt will be happy to install the fixed carry-handle on a current M4. But it is not called M4A2, it would be Model R09xx.
    Btw, the first production runs of the M4 had the fixed handle.

    Current productions runs:
    The M4 is a flat-top and safe-semi-burst selector
    The M4A1 is a flat-top and safe-semi-auto selector

    Incidently, the US SOCOM is switching to a heavier barrel profile on their M4A1's, because the barrels didn't last as long as they thought when using full-auto fire.
     
  9. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    Cardinal: We're following the commercial designation as given by Bushmaster. Not the designation given by the US military.

    If they had it their way, every peice of hardware would have the designation 'M1'.
     
  10. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    And the lifespan of the barrels is a moot point when they tend to EXPLODE around 150 rounds of continues full auto.
     
  11. Cardinal

    Cardinal Gun Enthusiast

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    Shakken: Ok.

    Personally I don't like fixed handle version anyway. The flat-top is much more flexible. Put a Yankee Hill rear sight on it with the Aimpoint Comp M2 in front. Then add the KAC RAS with the Sure-Fire M900 underneath, Beta C-Mags and the ITT 6015 on-top of the RAS. Now you got my kind of a gun. :D


    And DO the M4's barrels explode after 150 rounds on full-auto? If so, I'd say the quality of the barrels needs improving significantly.
     
  12. Col.Sanders

    Col.Sanders New Member

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    Cardinal: the question is, does adding a flat-top M4 significantly increase our ability to kill people? I don't think so.

    Secondly, the mess about the 150-rounds-and-the-rifle-explodes. I read the memo someone else linked to here, don't have the URL offhand, but it sounded like a training restriction: don't put mags through the rifle as fast as you can reload and mash the trigger. The memo mentioned a recommended rate-of-fire of 4 rounds per minute, which sounds like a shooting range, not combat. Also, it seemed to be describing an accelerated wear issue, not a "spontaneous disassembly" event.
     
  13. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    Cardinal: The flattop is aftually rather stupid considering the frontsight of the weapon get's in your line of sight. The M4A1 is pretty much a half baked weapon.

    They couldn't be bothered to change the bayonet or handguard so they'd be able to use the optimum length 16" barrel, the piccatinny rail requires the carrying handle to be detached with is to say in the least inneficient and logistically unsound given one might LOSE the carrying handle and the fact that the frontsight get's in the way unless you employ an optic that raises the view of the shooter to the point you might as well have mounted it on top of the carrying handle.

    Makes you wonder why they didn't bother make the picatinny gas block part of the package.

    And oh god are the flip up iron sights flimsy garbage.

    http://www.lepsa.org/Trainer's Archives/Firearms Safety/M16 cookoffs.htm

    Incidentally, US SOCOM is NOT employing heavier barrels because none are in production. They are simply retraining their personnel to fire more conservatively.

    Which is a load of balls because when you need full auto in a firefight, you need it BADLY.
     
  14. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    lol, they sure do make crap weapons don't they :)
     
  15. Cardinal

    Cardinal Gun Enthusiast

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    Shakken:

    The Yankee Hill rear sight is NOT a flip up sight. [​IMG]


    The M4 wasn't designed for the US Military, it was designed for a middle eastern country.




    And the heavy M4 barrel is in production. I've seen them for sale on ar15.com several times.
    Quote: "Colt has supplied several thousand M4 heavy barrel carbines and spare barrels(RO921HB) to SOCOM units over the current fiscal year. Since the SOCOM troops tend to be issued M4A1 auto carbines, the heavy barrel makes sense. Marine sources told me the USMC is in the process of buying 35,000 M4s from Colt for general issue to almost every Marine, replacing the M16A2, A3 and A4 rifles. Since the Navy/Marine command prefers the burst weapon, I am not sure which M4 barrel type they will be acquiring."
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=18378#lastPost
     
  16. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    Cardinal: That's even more redundant since the REAR sight will get into whatever sight picture you have though a scope.

    The M4 was designed in 1983 on request of the United States Marine Corps. Which is a derivative of the model 653 m16a1 carbine. Middle Eastern country indeed.

    ALL M4s are built with heavy barrels with a step cut. There are no heavier barrels available apart from the ones that are current issue. I've seen too many people mistake a model 653(which have light barrels) for an M4. Which is probably what's happening here.

    The cookoff article I've posted refers to the M4A1 that is issued WITH a heavy barrel by default.

    Which still blows up.
     
  17. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    [​IMG]

    The item mounted in M4 carbines.

    [​IMG]

    You won't find THIS issued to the military because it's wider than the mount for the M203 allows.
     
  18. Col.Sanders

    Col.Sanders New Member

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    Such a shame. I have witnessed hundreds of rounds fired through a heavy (no M203) barrel in a few minutes with no cookoffs, jams, or barrels exploding.

    The M4 may be a half-baked weapon, but other, superior configurations exist, and they can be dropped on in seconds. Then again, it's not a light machine gun and never will be.
    But I think Shakken's devotion to his FAMAS will never be shaken. :)
     

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