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CliffyB, UT Politics and the Future of the PC

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by PeterVenkman, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. Bishop F Gantry

    Bishop F Gantry New Member

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    Gow only has two flaws on the PC a buggy release and a poor ability to set up servers otherwise it would have been just about a perfect game.
     
  2. Interbellum

    Interbellum I used to be a man

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    3rd person, barely moddable, and no bot support =/= just about perfect.
     
  3. UndeadRoadkill

    UndeadRoadkill New Member

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    Checkpoint save, one-button-fits-all ftl?
     
  4. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    3rd person is your opinion. What does barely moddable matter either? Most games are barely moddable these days. The lack of bot support is annoying but pretty commonplace as well, particularly for console games (this was a port after all).
    Checkpoint save is normally fine, there is actually only one really irritating checkpoint that I can think of in Gears. That is pretty impressive, imo.

    One button fits all? Who cares? Games were made with "action buttons" long before consoles became a huge business and people still made games for PC.
     
  5. UndeadRoadkill

    UndeadRoadkill New Member

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    I wouldn't have brought it up if I didn't care. My character kept diving headfirst into walls when I wanted him to take cover, getting stuck on things when I wanted him to run, just doing the wrong thing all the time. I had a whole keyboard available to me, and yet I couldn't bind individual actions. Whether or not people made games with "action buttons" before consoles or dinosaurs or whatever doesn't make it any less annoying.

    The fact that I was doing the wrong thing all the time made the checkpoint save even worse than it normally is. I get sick enough of repeating large segments because I made a small mistake, it gets really frustrating when I have to repeat a segment because the game didn't interpret what I was trying to do correctly.
     
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    What I mean is that having an action button isn't really a reason to hate a game. That's like saying you won't play any game because it has some design decision in it. If you want to enjoy he game, it's easy to look past those things.

    PC gamers are really picky about such things too, not just slightly more than console gamers, I'm talking multitudes of levels higher than on consoles. With that in mind, is it any wonder games are being made for and catered to the console crowd? It used to be people could enjoy a good game however it was designed. Now it has to be exactly a specific way or nobody will pay for or play it.
     
  7. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    So? give people what they want, it works for every other industri on this planet, its just crazy enough to work for PC games too.
     
  8. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    The margin of error is too narrow to justify the cost. You can't afford to mess up one time on PC.

    It's like that episode of The Simpsons where Homer designs his own car. PC Gamers are like Homer, Publishers are like his brother. If you can make that car cheaply enough to make money off of the few people who will actually buy it, great. But for the big budget titles, they can't afford to do that.

    I'm actually happy to see that some companies are porting their games to PC, though. It's nice to see people taking SOME interest, since hardly any decent titles were released between 2002 and 2007.
     
  9. UndeadRoadkill

    UndeadRoadkill New Member

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    But I didn't say that I hate it or that I wouldn't play it. However, it really did hamper the fun, and I could only take so much 'reloading checkpoint' before I was looking for something else to do.

    The audience is what it is. I think PC gamers are generally looking for more depth, while games designed for console play benefit from simplicity. Going simpler and leaner is just going to turn a lot of PC gamers off.
     
  10. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess I'm just used to that, in fact most PC games added it before long years ago. It's called "Auto-save".
    I tend to disagree. I think PC gamers want more customization in order to turn the game into what they want instead of what it is. Console gamers have never really had that and thus don't miss it when it's left out. What I'm saying is that PC Gamers (in general) don't really seem to want to play games the way they are made.
     
  11. UndeadRoadkill

    UndeadRoadkill New Member

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    I wouldn't say that a desire to mod means they don't appreciate the game out of the box, but it is a huge plus to have the freedom to do that type of thing, it's like adding a whole other dimension to the product.
     
  12. Bishop F Gantry

    Bishop F Gantry New Member

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    third person is more a matter of prefference, imo gow can stand on its own without modding (yes having that option is always nice) and singleplayer offers a good challange so no bots isnt that big of an issue.
     
  13. Godfrey.Payans

    Godfrey.Payans Member

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    I think a lack of bots hurts when it comes to replay value. As it happens I have replayed most of the game once, but only because it lost my progress towards the end of my first run. Some parts of the game, like dodging those blind creatures when the character movement doesn't seem good enough for that sort of task, mean that I haven't been tempted to replay it for the joy of the experience. You can't just jump into carnage like with UT3.

    On the other hand, I have replayed Quake 4 a number of times, so by the standards I see on the net my taste must be pretty bad. For me Gears's single-player isn't as replayable as Quake 4 or Mass Effect, or even Bioshock, so the lack of bots means that it's a one-off game.

    It doesn't really matter if that's common for other games, it means that Gears isn't perfect. Being in the top forty still isn't the same as being number one.
     
  14. KeithZG

    KeithZG will forever be nostalgic

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    I can't say I ever found the checkpoints to be too annoying, other than in the co-op splitting up parts (gahhh!) where, then and there, I could really have loved some quicksave. Other than that, though, the checkpoints were fine from my perspective.

    Customization is a different manner, though. I wouldn't say it's because PC Gamers don't want to play games the way they're made, I would just say that one size doesn't fit all. Hell, that's why I'm a KDE guy; that desktop environment can be changed to act in whichever way you want, and some people have fundamentally different ways that are best for them to interact with their computers. Whereas on the other hand you have something like OS X, where you'd have to use kernel hacks just to get your Macbook to not go to sleep when you closed the lid. Like consoles, Apple works by creating one way and insisting it's the only way that things are supposed to behave, refusing to let you change it. That works for some people, some people love not having to think about choice and good for them. Some people find it irritating as hell and can't stand it; myself and many PC Gamers fall into the latter category, I think.

    One of my favourite dead horses to beat is Deus Ex 2 ;) and one of the big differences between the first game and the second game is that in the first they made it really easy and straightforward to customize how the HUD looked and, to a degree, acted. For the second one there was far less leeway and you had to go hacking around in an ini file to do any of it regardless.

    PC Gamers think "this is a computer program, why can't it be modified?" And often times the modifications they want are very slight and would be easy to allow, just user interface choices, but you're very right, console players aren't used to that and so they don't miss it when it's gone. If I couldn't rebind the other trigger in Halo to melee instead of grenades I'd go crazy, but most console-based players wouldn't raise an eyebrow (obviously not a great example since you CAN rebind the controls to a degree, but since I've got to run off to my night class now I don't have time to think of a better example, heh, you get my point though).
     
  15. Interbellum

    Interbellum I used to be a man

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    Yes, but a very defensible one, especially on this forum.

    Are you kidding?? Without custom content a game's replay value and fun factor are reduced by several orders of magnitude. It's the heart & soul of the UT series, and the MAIN reason I bought UT2004 and UT3 (UT99 I got for free). When seeing UT2003's first promo pics, I thought 'hm, ok, looks nice...', but it was the custom chars on Skin City that made me go 'OMG, got to upgrade my rig and get this gaem!!1!1'. By the time I did, UT2004 was already out, and one of the first things I did (after playing exactly 1 vanilla botmatch) was go out and grab those models, as well as any other custom content I could find. Good times!

    The opposite of progress. Well, they lost me as a customer, that's for sure.

    Reducing the offline replay value to almost nothing is more than a little 'annoying', imho. Again, the opposite of progress, dumbed down games for dumbed down people. :rolleyes:
     
  16. iron12

    iron12 New Member

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    Well can't they just hand the game over to DE or whoever did UT2004 and let them do something good with the game. Let Epic do its GoW thing on the consoles and let DE do something worth while on the UT-PC front. I think then GoW would sell good and UT would sell good on the PC. In there effort to maximize profit they took there eye off the ball and UT-PC has pretty much dropped off the side of the earth as far as people playing it. I think DE disbanded though, I don't know for sure.
     
  17. Zer0

    Zer0 .

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    Epic did UT2004, with some help from DE. It wasn't just DE.
     
  18. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Like zero said, Epic (and lots and lots of contracted help) were largely responsible for the content of UT 2004. DE has not disbanded, though it did go through some serious downsizing. FYI - DE just handled the BioShock port to the PS3.
     
  19. iron12

    iron12 New Member

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    Well I'm think of buying a PS3 so maybe I'll check it out.:D
     
  20. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    DE's also been blamed for the poor/lack of direction in UT since UT2003. So you want to just hand them back the reins and see what else they can screw up in it?

    What should REALLY happen if they want to take UT back to it's roots is to get DE on board to help Epic, not vice versa, not giving DE the reins. The best Unreal games came from them co-operating fully on the titles.
     

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