Ouch.Not sure the guys putting in 80 hour weeks on Gears crunch would agree with that 'easy' part.
Cliff Bleszinski Responds To Critics
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Posts like this are completely worthless, you know. You didn't make a point, you didn't evoke thought, you didn't do anything.
Kill.Switch has similar game mechanics to Gears of War, but Gears perfected nearly all of them (and expanded on them, as well). There is really no comparison, I found Kill.Switch painful to play in a lot of ways that Gears is extremely simple.
Gears is innovative? Ha! I never ventured much into consoles beyond the N64, but I recall a game on it called Winback that had pretty much the exact same cover system. There may have been others, but that one was almost 10 years ago. Cover systems are not new!
Srsly, Gears is about as uninnovative as it gets. B movie acting quality, excessive gore and explosions to try and cater to the Hollywood crowd, trite humans vs. aliens storyline, and simplistic, repetitive, shallow gameplay. Yay! Lemme run right out and lay down $60 for that!
As far as shooters are concerned, consoles fit their niche well -- dumb games for dumb gamers.
The only reason Epic has failed on PC lately is because the bar is set considerably lower for consoles, so they've been releasing stuff that simply won't appeal to the PC crowd. They could see that as challenge and try to show the world they're actually capable of putting out a competent PC release, but instead they're taking the easy way out. It's kind of like working for your money or inheriting it from your smelly grandpa. Epic has a big smelly grandpa. D:
Srsly, Gears is about as uninnovative as it gets. B movie acting quality, excessive gore and explosions to try and cater to the Hollywood crowd, trite humans vs. aliens storyline, and simplistic, repetitive, shallow gameplay. Yay! Lemme run right out and lay down $60 for that!
Nice.
As far as shooters are concerned, consoles fit their niche well -- dumb games for dumb gamers.
The only reason Epic has failed on PC lately is because the bar is set considerably lower for consoles, so they've been releasing stuff that simply won't appeal to the PC crowd. They could see that as challenge and try to show the world they're actually capable of putting out a competent PC release, but instead they're taking the easy way out. It's kind of like working for your money or inheriting it from your smelly grandpa. Epic has a big smelly grandpa. D:
Well give us some numbers then for once, we never get proper numbers just a heap of talk from developers who are moving to consoles, I hate to say it but it sounds alot like excuses. If I knew you more personally perhaps there would be some trust there but Ive learn to never trust a businessman you never know if they are trying to sell you snakeoil.
Im just interested to see this bottom line and see that it'll drive Epic into the ground if they keep releasing on multiple platforms. Ofcoarse you dont need to show me every little $ but sales on PC UT3 (alone) would be a good god damn start! We arnt talking just retail here either, tell us how many sold on steam vs retail, then go all digital vs retail. I mean you should know this stuff, we really dont need to be the one telling you retail is going the way of the stone age!
If you look at the numbers I think you'll be suprised, compare sales numbers to generations for say the top game on every platform, then do top 10 and so on. Im guessing there will be alittle influx where the PS2 is because everything even PC had alot of activity going on. I must admit those are total sales by platform so its not directly related to retail per see but I do believe it has part to do with the current misconceptions on sales numbers. I think you'll be surprised when you find the current consoles are no where near hitting the last gen sales numbers for the top 10 games, theres not much time left for em to catch up either.
There is always the possibility that people are buying more games instead of just 1 and 2 so across the 100 top sellers on a platform it could be different. Hell its better than just saying oh we sold x amount and made x $....
I will simply cite personal preference here.
I for one rather enjoyed having cover and roll be two different buttons so that I could roll when I wanted to, and take cover when I wanted to. In Gears there were far, far too many times where I saw Marcus diving head-first into a wall and rolling against it like an idiot. Similarly, I enjoyed having the option to take cover against a door and only close or open it when I wanted to, not when the context clues decided I should. All Gears did was roll it all into one button. That's not innovation, that's just simplifying (and screwing up, IMHO) controls.
Aside from that, they both have dudes shooting other dudes while ducking behind rocks. They play very, very similarly. Sure, Gears has better physics for grenade trajectories and more special-effects-laden weapons, but those are products of hardware power and graphics capability and do not contribute significantly to gameplay. Hammer of Dawn? All it is is a rocket launcher that doesn't fire unless you hold down the button for a while. The lancer? It's a melee attack like any other, it just takes the player out of the game to go through its lengthy little canned animation. By the way, chainsawing the air while the enemy two feet away flies apart for no particular reason was really cool.
The point I was making is there, you just choose to dismiss it or not agree with it. The point is that the cover system in gears -- its sole claim to fame aside from "lol graphics" and "MUSCLY GRUNTS R DEEP" -- is nothing new, and cannot be claimed as innovation. Nothing in it can. It is, at best, a refinement of already-existing mechanics.
I think Guilty Gear is superior to Street Fighter. But I still acknowledge that nothing in GG is innovative, because all of it was done before in SF. GG just made it pretty and polished it a tad more.
In my opinion, posting on forums is one step below doing absolutely nothing to solve the issue being discussed. Rather than working towards real change, one is simply low-effort venting. Ultimately the only power most consumers have is the decision whether or not to buy a product. If you buy it, the only message heard is "Excellent work!". If you don't buy it, the message is "Do better next time!". This is not to say game forums don't serve a valuable purpose in giving devs access to the brains of people who play their games sometimes more than they do. But for eliciting change to business strategies, convincing your pet cat would be a better use of your time
Actually, a month or so before the release, epic had an IRC chat with their fans in which the fans were allowed to ask questions about UT3. i asked if PS3 users would be able to host dedicated custom content servers with a file redirect. The response I got was yes.
So being misled would prevent me from practicing that theory.
Anyway, I'm not bagging on you or epic. Just wanted to put that out there.
Good luck with gears 2
Co-sign.
FPS/shooting games of any kind on a console are terrible w/ a controller- along w/ the level design to accommodate imho.
Until m/kb are standard on consoles and all games will work with them I can't be bothered.
Until then I'll let my son enjoy Gears or MoH: Hell's Highway, etc. as that's their target audience anyway.
IMHO- Gears 1 was a beautiful looking game, but didn't enthrall me. I played through the game (on the highest level it would let me out of the case) in 6 hours (maybe 5-5.5 actual hours of play w/out the cut scense) with the promise of a great multi-player experience. However, with no dedicated servers that great multi-player experience quickly became laughable with host advantage.
However, my son loves it.
I expect more of the same from Gears 2. Beautiful looking- relatively no story, unbalanced online play and short single player experience.
Hope you make a ton of money though. :tup:
Now- Jeff- how about fixing UT3? It's clearly broke and has been since release. Build and release a quality, working game and players will be there- regardless of platform. Release a beta at AAA price and don't be surprised when sales and player numbers drop significantly (along w/ the price of the game and, therefore, your profits).
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They just need to figure out how to make games that will work better for the PC, than the console. Wait, they had one recently, UT3. But they F it up. Think about this, put the new Starcraft 2, or Diablo 3 on consoles, think what would happen to the series, the fanbase, and Blizzard. UT3 is a perfect example. The day that game was decided to be made multiplatform, is the day that game died, and Epic knows this, but they wont admit it.
Gears of War is a console game, so us PC gamers, should not complain. It made a lot more sense to complain about UT3, being made for consoles. But hey, they said that first GoW would not get released for PC, but a year later, we had it. I'm sure they will want to make a few more bucks with an easy port a year from now, I can bet on that.
I'm actually afraid what will happen to Fallout 3, I pray that its going to be a success. Also, look at Dragon Age by Bioware, when it was announced, long time ago, as the next major PC game from Bioware, now its being developed on all platforms, thanks to EA most likely.
Gears of War is a console game, so us PC gamers, should not complain. It made a lot more sense to complain about UT3, being made for consoles. But hey, they said that first GoW would not get released for PC, but a year later, we had it. I'm sure they will want to make a few more bucks with an easy port a year from now, I can bet on that.
I'm actually afraid what will happen to Fallout 3, I pray that its going to be a success. Also, look at Dragon Age by Bioware, when it was announced, long time ago, as the next major PC game from Bioware, now its being developed on all platforms, thanks to EA most likely.
TheIronKnuckle
What the hell is this "ballin" thing?
You know Jeff, all that you are saying is a load of bull. Your arguments might have some merit if you took them somewhere else, but just consider who you are talking to: PC gamers.
You are talking to a large community of people who are saying that they would gladly buy another Unreal game if it were of a high quality.
Does anyone else see the irony? Jeffy boy is telling a group of people that are hungry for a good PC game and ready to burn their wallets to get it that the PC market is in decline and there is no reason to continue developing for it.
We are freaking telling you that we would buy PC games if you kept making them and making them good. Your arguments that PC gaming is dead or dying are complete and utter BS when you talk to us. Our replies make your posts totally redundant.
You're saying that no one wants to buy PC first person shooters any more?
pffft:
It is bloody mutually assured destruction. One game developer says PC gaming is dead and moves to consoles even though PC gaming isn't dead at all. Then another one follows and then the rest of them. Soon everyone is developing for consoles and the PC market IS dead. It is the developers fault that PC gaming is dying, not the consumers.
Make good games and we will buy them, regardless of the console.
Also, you say that PS3 is a great platform for mods. That is crap. Who is going to make the mods for a PS3 if the game is console exclusive? I didn't know that the PS3 was a practical platform for using Ued. Just imagine the BSP holes that could be produced with such an inaccurate form of input.
And don't tell me that you can just release "PC tools for a console game". that is also crap. The only reason that mods for UT3 get ported over to PS3 is because there is a PC version of UT3. If there was no PC version, there would be no more mods.
How often do you find a map for UT3 that has been cooked for ps3 but not for PC? I would wager that it has never happened before. That is just a taste of what would happen to the modding aspect of games if the franchise goes console exclusive. The mod community would die.
You are talking to a large community of people who are saying that they would gladly buy another Unreal game if it were of a high quality.
Does anyone else see the irony? Jeffy boy is telling a group of people that are hungry for a good PC game and ready to burn their wallets to get it that the PC market is in decline and there is no reason to continue developing for it.
We are freaking telling you that we would buy PC games if you kept making them and making them good. Your arguments that PC gaming is dead or dying are complete and utter BS when you talk to us. Our replies make your posts totally redundant.
You're saying that no one wants to buy PC first person shooters any more?
pffft:
If the PC gaming market is in decline it isn't because the gamers aren't buying the games, it's because the companies aren't making the games. Epic has suddenly fallen into a rich form of mediocrity. Instead of proving everyone wrong by standing up proud and saying "PC gaming isn't dead and here is our new game to prove it" you are just following everyone else and moving to consoles.
It is bloody mutually assured destruction. One game developer says PC gaming is dead and moves to consoles even though PC gaming isn't dead at all. Then another one follows and then the rest of them. Soon everyone is developing for consoles and the PC market IS dead. It is the developers fault that PC gaming is dying, not the consumers.
Make good games and we will buy them, regardless of the console.
With that in mind, don't forget PC.
Also, you say that PS3 is a great platform for mods. That is crap. Who is going to make the mods for a PS3 if the game is console exclusive? I didn't know that the PS3 was a practical platform for using Ued. Just imagine the BSP holes that could be produced with such an inaccurate form of input.
And don't tell me that you can just release "PC tools for a console game". that is also crap. The only reason that mods for UT3 get ported over to PS3 is because there is a PC version of UT3. If there was no PC version, there would be no more mods.
How often do you find a map for UT3 that has been cooked for ps3 but not for PC? I would wager that it has never happened before. That is just a taste of what would happen to the modding aspect of games if the franchise goes console exclusive. The mod community would die.
You know, this quote is sig worthy. Irony thy name is Jeff Morris.
Shadowhaxor
FraGGing your A$$ east to west.
1. Then why are you commenting if this doesn't apply to you.
2. Then you aren't branded a pirate since you aren't a pc elitest.
3. Why are you posting again?
I was mostly referring to your delivery.
Still, this is obviously a situation where there are disparaging definitions of what innovative really means. To me, control refinement and more interesting gameplay all around are more innovative than some completely different game style that wouldn't feel right.
Kane and Lynch has pretty the same controls as Kill.Switch does, and they blow pretty hard in that game. In fact, I'd say the controls in that game are worse than almost any other aspect of it.
You are completely and utterly wrong, I'm sorry.
Even if every active member of BuF bought four copies of UT, that would only amount to around 320,000 copies of the game (at best). That, honestly, is not a game selling well.
Even DOUBLING that number is weak compared to what you can get with a AAA game on a console.
It's not surprising, look at which games are selling the best on PC. They aren't just good games, they are INCREDIBLE games. Point being, the same amount of effort goes into a 10/10 console game as a 7/10 PC game. Look at the scores on most cross platform games, or, more appropriately, just between games of similar quality. The PC scores are always lower, the sales are always worse, the developers always complain about them more. It's not a mystery of science: Less sales on a platform = more developers complaining about that platform.
I think it's naive and shortsighted to not see the trends in the buying market right now. Gears of War itself sold 5 million units plus in a few months on the 360. What PC game has sold that many units OVER IT'S LIFETIME? Point made.
This is also a situation where there are differing definitions of what interesting gameplay really is, but there's nothing to reconcile between you enjoying gears and me not. That's just how it is with different people liking different things. Personally, I played through the campaign just to give the game a fair chance, but I was bored stiff after the first two chapters because hiding behind a rock and sniping people got really old, really fast. Didn't help that the only thing that changed from scene to scene was how many enemies were wielding explosive guns. There was literally only one enemy type in the game that didn't just stand around shooting/waiting to be shot, and all that type did was run forward and scream at you.
To put it in perspective, FEAR was also a game that had pretty much one enemy type in the whole game, with varying levels of armor and explosiveness, except for one other type that just ran forward and melee'd you. It overcame the dullness of that by focusing on the cinematic nature of the combat and giving you the chance to do a whole lot of things besides snipe. The slow-mo button made that game.
TheIronKnuckle
What the hell is this "ballin" thing?
shhhh
I know all this. You didn't pick up on my point. My point was that WarTourist's arguments that PC gaming is dead are fallling on deaf ears.Apology accepted. (I feel like an ass saying that
)On a slightly different note, so what if you need to make INCREDIBLE games to win on the PC? I thought Epic was capable of pulling off an incredible game standing on their head. What's to stop them from pulling themselves together and amassing large amounts of awsome for the PC market?
Just because you flip a coin and it turns up tails doesn't mean it isn't possible to flip the coin again and achieve a head.
Similarly, just because epic screwed up UT3 doesn't mean i automatically start flaming them and claim "I will never buy another ut game again even if it is good". I still have Faith that epic can do a good PC UT. (It is quite a blind faith though
) I WILL buy another UT game. but not if it is on console, I don't care for PSwii60's. They are inconvieniant and expensive. I don't want to buy one when my computer is perfectly capable of handling games.
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You and me both. It's no mystery that UT3 didn't turn out great, but I still know Epic is capable. So I'm looking forward to what they decide to do next (after Gears 2).Just because you flip a coin and it turns up tails doesn't mean it isn't possible to flip the coin again and achieve a head.
Similarly, just because epic screwed up UT3 doesn't mean i automatically start flaming them and claim "I will never buy another ut game again even if it is good". I still have Faith that epic can do a good PC UT. (It is quite a blind faith though