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Beppos zoom-while-aiming mutator

Discussion in 'Infiltration Development' started by -Freshmeat, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. Big_Duke_06

    Big_Duke_06 Charlie Don't Surf!

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    I love it - thanks for putting it together for us, Beppo! Would it be possible to have it stay in AimView mode even while firing? Perhaps as long as the AltFire is held, it stays zoomed - even when firing? It makes the FAMAS much more useable - and that's a Good Thing (tm).

    Also agree that it probably should only be able to go to AimView when not moving, perhaps even with a delay between coming to a stop and bringing up AimView...

    Matthew
     
  2. Da_Blade

    Da_Blade Da sharpest man around!

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    Tried it out and loved; i don't agree on the keep-zoomed after having fired, since that would induce full-auto sniping again, this feature now i only usefull on semi; as it should. I do agree it shouldn't zoom while moving. It would be great to see this one work online.

    Oh and Beppo; this mutie made me aware just how much i use controlled breathing with irons. I walked down the tactical/physical range and it made me realize i even use controlled breathing for quick snap shots. Apparantly i have learned myself (hey - i didn;t know this before either :p) to press controlled breathing the moment i see something to fire at; i then aim; then fire. This all happens in a snap second of course; but seriosuly i never realized i used controlled breathing for snap shots even :D

    Walking down the tactical range on the shootingrange made me feel sick with all the zooming in and out hehe
     
  3. -Freshmeat

    -Freshmeat Eternally noob

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    This works out almost to good. There will be no need for scopes on anything below 100 yards if this is implemented. However, I have a slight suggestion for the mutator: Would it be possible for the game to check if the weapon was not aimed, and if not aimed raise the weapon to aimed even if the button was held. I encountered situations when i pressed the secondary fire to get into aimed mode, but the game read the action as 'key being held', and thus did nothing: I was not in aimed mode, so it did not zoom, and I did not press-and-release the key, so it should not toggle between aimed and unaimed mode. This might be more of a problem with my 8-20 fps, because I sometimes press a key longer because i get no feedback due to fps drops. But even if this is not implemented, I think the feature is great. You might want to set a minimum fov at some 45-55° to prevent it being used as 'instant scope' online, and a maximum to ensure ppl does not use this for a fisheye in QCB. I cannot stress how great an addition I think this is to the game, esp. for people like me who must use low resolution and graphics due to hardware limitations.

    -Freshmeat (All hail Beppo)
     
  4. Silver_Ibex

    Silver_Ibex Member

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    Beppo, Zooming should not be allowed while moving faster then a walk, un-zooming after every shot really does not feel right at all, it really detracts from playability/enjoyment.

    Raven Shield had it right as far as aim-zoom, and character movement goes.

    Your mutator is headed in the right direction :tup: :cool:

    Though as it is now, in game you can aim-zoom with a pistol while jogging, yet while crouched in a steady position your first shot throws your gun out of aim-zoom :(

    I would have it be…

    Jogging, running, crawling, or swimming un-zooms weapon.
    Walking while firing un-zooms after first shoot.

    Firing while crouched or prone should remain zoomed while firing.

    Not sure about the following situations, maybe have them adjustable to Un-zoom/remain zoomed, in the configuration???
    Firing while standing?
    Firing while leaning?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2004
  5. Da_Blade

    Da_Blade Da sharpest man around!

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    Well i'd just say just tie the zoom to hold breath. ie. only when not leaning and standing still; and resets after every shot.
     
  6. Silver_Ibex

    Silver_Ibex Member

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    Da_Blade, would you please explain the logic behind your desire for the gun to un-zoom after every single shot??? If the gun was unsteady or unsupported I could see that making more sense, but if I hunker down to take aim, the sights should remain in focus/zoomed.

    The logic behind zooming as far As I can tell is to make the sights easier to see, so you can actually aim with them, especially for those with low res, or small computer screens.

    And with a game that actually has functional true 3D iron sights, it is about time they where easier to clearly see.

    If your desire is to prevent auto sniping with iron sights, that really is silly :lol:
    Those who want to do that, can just slap an ACOG on their gun and get an even better zoom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2004
  7. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    Everything you guys said is doable ... BUT ... not with a simple mutator that does NOT exchange the weapon classes at all. And this is something I will not do due to many incompatibility reasons that such form of development throws up.

    One of the problems is that the INF weapons reset the AltFire button/key automatically at the time you hit the Fire button/key and release a shot. This was included due to several reasons, one being the control breathing stopping then automatically.

    The other problem is that I can only adjust the weapon meshs drawoffset but cannot disable the original behaviour. So I have to find ways to 'interact' with the given behaviour. Else I would need to subclass the weapons and this is a nono.

    - stop aimview while moving aso is doable
    - other things to check that do not have to do with the weapons themselves are doable too
    - changing the AltFire resetting and so allowing multiple shots while zoomed is not so easy and not doable without sideeffects. You can get around this by adding some sort of a 'granted seconds' check that lets you stay in zoom for some seconds without the need to press your AltFire button again or something alike. Even setting AltFire manually again is possible but can cause a bunch of unwanted side effects cause I cannot check if the player is actually still holding the button/key.
    - Only solution for this... new key for this AimView mode that can even force the aimed position if currently at hip... so the standard AltFire can be exchanged by it if needed.
     
  8. Silver_Ibex

    Silver_Ibex Member

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    I could live with another “Alt Fire”, sounds really promising.

    Please, please, please, could you Code it Beppo. :tup: :tup: :D
     
  9. FieldMedic

    FieldMedic Less good UT Player ever

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    Great mutator , i agree with the other , as it feels very weird to go in unzoom if firing a shot.
    I understand your reason about not allowing multiple shot while in aimview as it will require lot of works to change the weapons classes just for this.

    Actually Aimview works very well with the breath control zooming and i like it, too bad there is no way without staying a simple mutator to fire several shots without unzooming :( and keeping the actual way it works (with the breath control).
     
  10. Big_Duke_06

    Big_Duke_06 Charlie Don't Surf!

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    I got plenty of room on my keyboard/mouse for a new bind... Make it so! :)

    Oh, and YOU DA MAN.

    Matthew
     
  11. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    No. It is not want I expected :(
    I wanted something to have my eye closer to the iron sight to be able to have the use of the FAMAS more like it is in the real life. This not the effect modelled by this mutator. The only use I see for it is to recognize the team ownershop of your target.
    I disapointed :(
    None to do a closer to the eye sight mutator ? Maybe it is definitely not possible with the engine ?
     
  12. FieldMedic

    FieldMedic Less good UT Player ever

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    Didnt thought about this.
    Now that is something that i find very very interesting.
    I would like a lot a mutator that can allow you to move your weapon closer to your eye , better than a "zoom all the scene" in my opinion.
    /call desesperatly to a coder.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2004
  13. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    Most if not all weapon models in INF are positioned as far 'back' as possible without starting to clip 'out' of the monitor. UT cuts off the meshs polys if they get 'behind' a thin plane placed in front of your view. So a mutator that pulls the weapons more back is more or less impossible with the models we have. Else you will look 'into' the cutted weapon models. Sure you can get the weapons closer to the screen, but not that far without clipping.

    The effect that the whole deal started with was seen in CoD and other games. There the FOV zooms in at the time you aim your weapon. And that is what this mutator does too.

    But I can add a 'close irons' mode or something alike if you guys want to test and see the resulting effect.
     
  14. Vega-don

    Vega-don arreté pour detention de tomate prohibée

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    definitively beppo. a mutator where you could try all the values.
    a zoom is to bad for the balance (Zoom > acogs) , a weapon closer to the screen (the closest the better ) would be GREAAAAAAAAT



    and darkbls, the famas took me time to learn it but now i master it and it owns most of the weapons thanks to the accuracy and rate of fire!

    i played with the Famas in stalingrad :) its easy
    but i agree for long range its a bit hard due to the small hole.

    SO PLAY WITH IT ! ITS AN ORDER
     
  15. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    Yes please Beppo, I would love to have this "problem" fixed. it would really add realism to the game IMHO. Is the problem the one shown on my Elite drawing ?

    @Freon: I'm a close combat warrior. But for long range FAMAS is a weapon of choice.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2004
  16. Vega-don

    Vega-don arreté pour detention de tomate prohibée

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    hehe im don.

    and FAMAS is realy GOOD at CQB after you master it
    . unless you want to go rambo i agree. if you move slowly , you will kill alot ;)


    some tips : indoors : HIP mode. (it realy works great. id take an hipped famas over an Akmsu or sig )
    less than 10 meters : HIP mode
    10-20 : lower the famas or progress slowly
    and dont jogg while aimed.
     
  17. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    Sorry, I don't know why I called you freon. A kind of awaken nightmare I think ! Anyway all french look the same too me :D

    Did I summaryze accurately the cliping problem ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2004
  18. Big_Duke_06

    Big_Duke_06 Charlie Don't Surf!

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    DarkBls: I read it that if *any part* of the weapon model is located behind this clipping plane, then the entire model is not rendered... I could be wrong, and forgive my use of the wrong FAMAS model in my sketch...

    So if that's the case, I guess the best we could hope for would be either a two piece model with one part of model representing the weapon ahead of the clip plane and the other the part in front of the clip plane, but I don't know if it's possible to have a two-piece model like that.

    Or maybe a second model that is shorter - only the weapon ahead of where the clip plane would be - that gets switched to when going to iron sights so that the whole model doesn't get clipped?

    Might just not be possible in the end, I guess. And what we have is definitely better than how it was.

    Matthew
     

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  19. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    The weapon will be rendered... just not the part that passes thru the clipping plane.
    This lets you actually look 'into' the model then cause the 'eye' is positioned a bit behind this clipping plane.
     
  20. FieldMedic

    FieldMedic Less good UT Player ever

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    Are you talking about something like the clipping artefact that appears with the shotgun in ironsight mode in RAv2 in INF 2.86 ?

    In RAv2 , yurch positionned the shotgun ironsight +/- like you can see it in INF2.9 , and in OGL (dont know for D3D) some polygons disapeared in it when aiming with ironsight because of that "clipping plane" (the view was weird then)

    Bad , bad unreal engine ...
    If only it was possible to zoom the weapon without zooming the other thing on the view..

    That said,
    it sounds very good ;) and i will be glad to test such a mutator , hoping that the clipping problem will not jump heavily
     

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