Bad BSP

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itfische

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Jan 11, 2002
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I was wondering if anyone could give me a suggestion as to what might be wrong with my UnrealEd. I have attached a screenshot of the map I just started working on. As you can see, there are sever BSP issues, since out of sixteen brushes 5 sided brushes, only 2 polys are visible. This occured using the default build settings, and terrible BSP errors are the norm for me on even simple maps. This is very frustrating. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thank you.

unrealed001.jpg
 

Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
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the polys are very primitive. And ut cant "break" them as you can do in maxx3d. so all the surfaces that are in this "broken" will cause bsp errors. thats kinda it. bad explained but well, somebody else will correct me
 

itfische

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Jan 11, 2002
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Thank you all for your replies. I was looking at the map ctf-conquest (I imagine you are all familiar with it and its extremely well executed canyons) which uses triangular cylinders in the canyon area in a similar way to what you saw in my original posting (actually, the author subtracted the canyon shape with a series of triangular cylindrical brushes with normal, flat tops and bottoms, and then added triangular cylindrical brushes of the same shape, but with flat bottoms and varied tops to give the variety of terrain, whereas I just subtracted triangular cylinders with varied tops and bottoms to give the varied floor and ceiling surfaces), and I don't think that he did those by using subtraction, as was suggested, although I could be mistaken. The only way I can imagine that being done is with extensive editing of every vertex, which is what I was doing. All vertices line up between brushes in both ctf-conquest and my map to give a smooth, unstepped surface. However, obviously my map fails catastrophically on the bsp level. (I actually find my results ridiculous to the point of comedy.) Does tesselation fix this? I don't even know what tesselation is. I used cylinders with three sides (as previously stated), but perhaps if I were to take a tesselated cube and subtract half of it, that would give me the same results after vertex editing as the triangular cylinder, but without the bsp errors. Is that what the group is trying to tell me?

Ian
 

Bot_40

Go in drains
Nov 3, 2001
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You han use many tessalated cubes to create the classic Unreal1 'vertical cliffs' style, or you can try your luck with the terrain brush. OR if you really want to sinck low, you can use terra-ed :hmm:
 

itfische

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I have discovered what I believe to be the problem in my above attempt. In my vertex editing, I recall that I accidently moved the vertices of my builder brush so that the center point of the brush was outside of the bounding lines. Previous experience had shown me that a brush with the center not contained by the bounding lines causes bad bsp, so I quickly arranged the vertices so that the center point was again contained. However, I believe that I inadvertently moved the wrong vertices, and I essentially created an inside-out brush. I have since recreated this very simply by intentionally turning a brush inside-out. It immediately destroys almost all of the bsp. So, if anyone is doing extensive vertex editing and suddenly finds that their level disappears, the best thing to do is to delete the last brush(es) they made and create a fresh brush. Thank you all for your feedback.

Ian
 

bobtheking

Monkey in a bucket
Dec 1, 2001
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Errrm, I think you'll find it's a lot easier to just set bTessalated to True in the cube builder
i was just using a cube as an example, what i saw in itfische's screenshot wasn't a cube. my way will also only split one side, and saves poly's if you only need one side to be tesselated
 

Laff

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Mar 12, 2000
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if you align your textures and do a merge poly's and rebuild, it's all good. =D