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Auto-turrets = t00_p0werful

Discussion in 'General UTXMP Discussion' started by {DE}Rarhok, Aug 30, 2004.

  1. Mantik

    Mantik Master Beta

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    The only problem I see with turrets as they are now in U2XMP is the fact that you can't shut them off. You can turn them off to not use energy for about 3 seconds, and then they turn back on automatically. I don't understand why that feature is even there ;P

    Not necessarily a problem just something that always made me scratch my head and wonder wtf the use was.
     
  2. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    I like this idea too.

    It would also help other players see how the experienced ones use turrets. I mean, you can already spectate players (and in 1st person, I recently learned!), so this isn't going much farther.

    Setting an upper limit would also sort of help in situations where any tech can just come up to their teammate's turret, pick it up, then redeploy it to count the frag for their own - thus owning the farm.

    So true! OK, how about having them transform into that green unactivated turret model that the techs hold? It should be harmless in this mode.

    It depends on the map and the players, but sometimes XMP can feel somewhat draining because of these overkill situations. A speech bind like "Get rid of the enemy's deployables" would even be nice to have.

    Naib:
    Taking defense is your team's responsibility responsibility. As \/\/0RF mentioned, turrets can slow you down, but players should have a greater role in defence than auto-turrets. For larger, open maps turrets can still be placed from a medium distance away to alert the guards or chip down passerbys. Techs can also deploy turrets after the artifact has been stolen, at the point of entry where the enemy came through. Usually the runner wouldn't even have time to pull out the shocklance with players chasing his/her back.

    Emmet Otter:
    Any tutorials would usually be helpful. Especially ones you can toggle on and off while in game so that each action you do has a pop-up notifying you of key things to remember about that action. The tutorial can list the things that the player has already seen in game, and the ones that he/she hasn't.
    I felt there was something still needed to be said (by XMP players) about turrets, and thus began this thread. Turrets may seem fine because we've got used to the game being this way, but the fact that they can be spammed makes the issue of balance seem questionable.

    That's true, it's dependant on other factors such as map size too.

    Ah, delicacy. Now I know what you mean by artwork :lol:
    The problem is dependant on the map's layout and structures. In some of them, defence can be spammed with so many turrets that it pretty much decides who ends the game or makes the game become long and drawn out. Turrets can sometimes make a defense fairly impenetrable.

    You'll likely receive feelings of hostility for this, or in Mantik's example, TK'ed ... So maybe it's better to disable them instead of destroying them. Although you still should be allowed to destroy them :lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  3. Naib

    Naib New Member

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    Yes, very true, but I think you missed my point. You are talking about public servers, where not everyone knows what is best for a team. If someone else on the team has already used up the turret quota, it's no longer posible to use any in defence.

    It's ok, you don't need to tell me how to defend, as I'm the gunner half of the 12m defence. Just ask TH about Rampant ;)

    Or maybe they seem fine because they are? The only time you can spam turrets is when you have a lot of the gens. It's also your teams responsibility to take the energy. If one team gets that much of an energy advantage, they deseve to be able to place a lot of turrets.
     
  4. [Lithium]

    [Lithium] New Member

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    It is slightly usefull. This way you can plug the node up with a couple rocket turrets and turn them off and then walk through them. Seldomly used nodoubt and it took me quite a while to discover this use as well :p

    EDIT

    As for turret spam balance have been more-or-less perfectly ballanced by having their energy use depend heavily on gens and the number of players in the game. I'm sure we've all played games where there have been n00bs that have spammed so many rocket turrets to drain all the energy reservs your team has right to the point where they all explode. On the other side, ever play a 4-6 person game and notice how much drain a single auto or rocket turret can put on your gens? In these small games turrets could upset the balance of the game because there are so few people but there is no problem b/c after 2 turrets there is no energy for anything else and I've never heard of any one having a lot of trouble wit honly two turrets.

    I would really like to see two things implemented to help protect both the experienced players and the n00bs with turret spam.

    1. An audio warning that the turret or (any deployable for that matter) your placing (or going to place when you switch to a deployable weapon) is going to drain the power from your reserves and node. Or any other sort of warning for that matter. It just seems that having the deployable number on your teams energy bar turn red isn't obvious enough a warning.

    2. Being able to see your teams turrets and other deployables as either icons or colour coded dots on the minimap would really help experienced players in finding the badly placed turrets that are destroying our energy. I'm sure we've all been on turret hunts before :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  5. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    Naib:
    Then the upper limit would have to be a number that's decided by the map's size, and divided by how many techs are currently on the team :p
    If we ever scrim, I hope we use Rampant and see how that turns out :)
    Skill-wise, multiplayer games will always remain unbalanced. If your team wins the energy war + have skilled players, and defends the energy with turrets, what then? It's can be someone's full time job.

    Lithium:
    Heh, I discovered the use of the turret's ability of noclip also late in the game. But that's because I didn't really see turrets actually in the node as much before o_o

    The level of danger turret spamming presents is dependent on other factors besides the number of them deployed... such as, where the spam is located, how the turrets are patterned and directioned, the amount of camouflage turrets have, the level of protection over the spam area, and other potential decoys, etc. I feel we just need a handicap around these factors when we encounter spam. Spamming is cheap, and too many spam kills are a nuisance.
     
  6. dutch_gecko

    dutch_gecko Think Pink

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    Turrets can be disabled? How?
     
  7. [DF]phalanx

    [DF]phalanx bgutblower=true

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    other classes can use them to switch em off
    like u do with the walls
     
  8. Naib

    Naib New Member

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    So if I'm on a map that allows 10 turrets, myself and the one other tech both place our 5 allowed turrets. Then someone else changes to tech. I'm now only allowed to place 3.33333 turrets. What happens to my extra turrets? How would you handle the .33333 of a turret. You could round it down, but then you lose one from your teams turret count, or you could round it up, but that gives you 3 extra turrets.

    A mid field tech may only need one turret, but a tech on defence may need 4, but he would not be able to place it because he has already hit his limit.

    When the map is made you can already pick how much energy each gen produces, and how many gens there are. That should be the only limit on the number of turrets. Adding an extra limit just makes thing unnecessarily complex.
     
  9. Dragon_X

    Dragon_X XMP Beta Tester

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    ;) i like it the way it is, you gotta manage nrg, not have limits so it never goes down
     
  10. [DF]phalanx

    [DF]phalanx bgutblower=true

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    .333333 of a turret?
    whats that
    a piece of turret?
     
  11. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    What would happen to your extra turrets is they simply explode when additional techs join. The order in which you set up the turrets is the reverse order in which they blow up. And for the heck of it, let's just round up. I mean, if your team is going to majorly rely on the tech, then they may for that reason alone.

    If you find yourself low on turrets, ask a teammate to give you theirs, or chat and direct them to where you want them placed and how they're positioned.

    The limit would be in effort to hinder individual player spammage in larger busy games. Energy is still needed to get the artifact node online, and turrets can still drain energy below 800. Nobody said that the upper limit would balance off that.

    Edit: And no, you wouldn't need to calculate while you play as the HUD would show each player the limits.

    ... omg, and I forgot to say that I thought Lithium's suggestions were really good! :eek:
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2004
  12. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    I totally disagree with capping the number of deployables. It just won't work. ENERGY is your limiting factor.

    To clarify, other classes can "use" a turret to shut it off, so that they can pass through if it is blocking their path. But it only shuts off for like 3 seconds then becomes active again. There is currently no way to deactivate a turret to conserve energy. Unless you count picking them up (tech) or shooting them (other) as deactivation. :D
     
  13. [DF]phalanx

    [DF]phalanx bgutblower=true

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    problem is techs cant shut turrets off :/
     
  14. Dandeloreon1984

    Dandeloreon1984 CXP Director

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    and thier is another problem, as a ranger, u shut it off, and then it goes right back on also :(.
     
  15. GlassBoy

    GlassBoy Nano-augmented Modder

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    That's because they are designed as fire support.
     
  16. Dandeloreon1984

    Dandeloreon1984 CXP Director

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    yea, but it does not help, when i want tto get rid of them, because of some stupid tech spamming insane amounts of torrets in a base, thus killing our team's energy.... it is not me, but the fact that the other classes can't disable a torret permanently, without having it reactivate, and force me to waste ammo in order to conserv energy.
     
  17. fireball

    fireball Reach out and torch someone

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    Remind me, what's a torret? I've seen turrets before, but..

    (Sorry, but that typo of yours is driving me slowly insane)
     
  18. Dandeloreon1984

    Dandeloreon1984 CXP Director

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    lol... sorry about that, but for me, most of the time, i mistake torret with turret.
     
  19. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    <3 4 torret
     
  20. Dragon_X

    Dragon_X XMP Beta Tester

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    <3 4 torrent :D
     

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