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Auto-turrets = t00_p0werful

Discussion in 'General UTXMP Discussion' started by {DE}Rarhok, Aug 30, 2004.

  1. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    Heh, maybe not an appropriate title... jokes ^^

    I also dun mean that auto-turrets seriously unbalance the gameplay. Though they can lock on in about a second and maintain that lock while killing you even from a sprint dodge jump distance away, that still is.... O.K. But!! When they're placed in a random fashion and/or within dark blackened areas, it's pretty hefty to handle.

    Some ranger dood's experience: Imagine dying at your first discovery of the randomly placed turret farm. You re-deploy in 10secs. You go to destroy the one that killed you, but then another one chops your life down while a gunner finishes you off. A tech re-deploys his turrets. You re-deploy in 12secs. You destroy one of the newly placed turrets and take a different path. Two enemies spot you and you're forced to go into the turret h3ll arena. You die, but look around to see where the turrets are before getting KO-owned. You re-deploy in 8secs. Great, you find a spot to shoot the turrets from, stopping for a moment to take your shots. Two turrets get blown, but a not-so-friendly sniper headshots you from the middle of the map. You turn around but take a step back... into where? Into turret arena h3ll. You re-deploy in 14.93secs. Two down, so what else is there? Oh yeah, the ones hiding in the dark. You shoot an energy bolt into one of the dark areas and see an explosion. Suddenly you're in a duel with another ranger. The win is yours, but your life is at 35. Now 0. Apparently there were two turrets in that darkness you shot into. You re-deploy in 8secs. OK, time to play smart and run along the edge of the map, dealing with as little of them at a time. You almost clear the area. The last auto-turret closest to the base locks on to you, which nearby enemy techs and gunners notice. They go after you while the reloading of the shocklance takes you into the next millenia. You re-deploy in 12secs. You reach the enemy base and become cordially invited to turretfest. You begin feeling that sense of defeat. The gunners hone in on your smell of fear and take you out before you can say "cha cha cha". You re-deploy in 12secs.

    So there's almost no worse chore in XMP than turret hunting. But!! This would be a lot easier to do if turrets were more easily noticeble. Can't we sort of make them glow, or put an icon over them? It'd be a lot more fun if we knew how to evade their scan area.
     
  2. Splinti

    Splinti Battle-Rat

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    Easy solution:
    Try some teamplay and hope a gunner takes them out for you!

    Because some gunner dood's experience is more like:
    You walk through an area with some turrets placed, you hear the sound of bullets around you, and it seems like something is scratching your armour! You reload your RocketLauncher and shoot randomly in the dark, blowing up the 3 turrets a not-so-friendly tech has placed there! (before getting charred by his secondary shotgun-fire! ;))
     
  3. Naib

    Naib New Member

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    Or maybe you could have them make a low hum, and even have rocket turrets and auto turrets have a diferent sound. Maybe UTXMP could use the sounds that U2XMP already uses ;)
     
  4. IndianPsycho

    IndianPsycho Registered user

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    I always just shoot in the direction of the tracking sound...
     
  5. .sl0w.

    .sl0w. ******

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    yesterday i had a discussion with .g4nja. complainin` the turrets are too weak & need too long to lock0n. I mean, its `bout a second before they actually start shooting - even as a gunner its enuf time to walk back 5 meters to listen & shot where the sound comes from plus you see the sparks, even far far away...
     
  6. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    Some points:

    1). Take a gunner or tech along for cover (I heard that FMI might turn XMP into a team game ;) )
    2). Rangers can outrun (or almost outrun) auto-tracking when sprinting. I've seen rangers dodge in and out of a crowded room before any of the (too many) turrets could fire a shot.
    3). Energy is king. If you have it all they can't deploy turrets.
    4). Some maps just have too many gens, can't help that.
    5). Maybe turrets will soak up a bit more energy in this release, to discourage farming?
     
  7. Dandeloreon1984

    Dandeloreon1984 CXP Director

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    well put, indian, i play as all 3 classes, and change them depending on what mood i am in, but i do haft to say that the torrets are the easiest things to knock out, but they are a nuassance when u are in a gunfight.
     
  8. Mantik

    Mantik Master Beta

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    You also mainly find that most techs deploy them in a certain pattern, not haphazardly. So there's always some area you can quickly dodge to to avoid most if not all of their fire. IE: There's a room with 2 entrances. The turret fire will be facing those two entrances, and usually not toward the back wall from which there is no entrance. Dodge to the back wall, take out the turrets, continue on your way.
     
  9. trogetta

    trogetta XMP Beta Tester

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    I have played XMP in a while, but from what I remember, (i know i was a ranger), was the only time turrets really got to be a problem is
    a)when they're pionted at teleporters
    b)when they're where you're having a fight.
    A lone ranger usually can't jump into a well deployed turret farm..however well deployed ones are often hard to come by lol...there's always a weakness and if there isn't..then call for back up. But then again, who needs backup in a team game.....its all about the FRAGS!!!!1111!!!!111ONEOoneOnE


    -_-
     
  10. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    Splinti:
    I like the easy solution a lot. But!! To kill a turret farm, you may need a few tries on your own, or have it done with an onslaught of turret hunters, a group that doesn't just readily assemble.

    Going as gunner is fine, but still there are cases where it's hard to deal with a turret arena when the father is keeping count of his flock.

    The tracking sound isn't enough with hidden turrets. You can get a general direction, but your precision comes from seeing the turret's muzzle flash, which by that time it's crippled you down to 50% health, and another turret finishes you off because you didn't hear it locking on with all the other noises going on, including the firing of your shocklance.

    In some maps, it's hard to locate the turrets that kill you because they blend in with the terrain. They're not hard to place either. After two have been taken out, another four can just crop up.

    Other well placed turrets are in locations where the tech approximately predicts the weak rangers will pass through without noticing. It's no challenge to the ranger if he/she gets killed in these cases.

    I'm not proposing to weaken the turrets though, but rangers need readily cover from them. How about having the smoke grenades jam their lock?

    What Naib suggested is very worth considering. Turrets do have a hum, but only in very close proximity to it. Not really helpful then. And distinguishing the type of turret can help the ranger decide whether they can leave it or not, etc.

    \/\/orf (to address your points):
    1). Teamwork works, but it's still takes long to wipe out the farm if the guards are alerted.
    2). Depends on the room, but remember it takes about one sec for it to get a lock. And even in room situations, if you're not going to take out more than one turret and the guards are alerted, they can stop you in your tracks. There's not much leeway with turrets. At least making the turrets highly visible (even on radar) gives you the advantage of a quicker response.
    3). Energy is key, but that's a pretty constant struggle while the farms are still alive.
    4). Yep
    5). Another good solution, I suppose ;)

    Deloreon:
    Turrets *are* fun and easy to knock out, but they will always be a nuisance (especially those decoy turrets that techs use before confrontation). I would like us to have a handicap that allows us to deal with them a little quicker.

    Mantik:
    Dodging them to avoid them is one thing, but when they surprise you and you dodge next to them to escape thier scan area, and then you take the time to pull out that shocklance with the enemy firing at you, you can't do a thing but dodge back again to shoot out the turret since shooting it up-close apparently makes it explode like a frag grenade. The enemy chips you down and thus gains advantage.

    trogetta:
    Good points, but still, dun underestimate the turrets... EVAR! KILLTHEM ALL - ALL AT ONCE IF POSSIBLE!
     
  11. [DF]phalanx

    [DF]phalanx bgutblower=true

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    i love it when rangers in thier effot to jump away from the auto turrets get a rocket turret shot to the back and die
     
  12. [Lithium]

    [Lithium] New Member

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    Turrets are great the way they are. It's hard enough to score kills with them without spamming them all over the place, and even then maintaining the farm is a fulll time job. I've only ever noticed turrets to be a large problem for rangers, but they are weak anyway. With the added shields that techs and gunners have they arn't all that leathal unless well placed and yet still only in large enough numbers. All you gotta do if you keep running into turret problems is adapt a little switch to gunner and go on suicide turret runs until they are all acounted for and switch back ranger. By the time you respawn ranger and get back there there shouldn't be more turrets then one shock lance clip can't deal with.
     
  13. TalonHunter

    TalonHunter This space for Rent

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    Since your talking about turrets...
    Will these turrets have 360 degree rotation or will we still get to laugh at the n00bs who point them at walls.. :D
     
  14. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    agreed. I sometimes get myself dead 3 or 4 times going back to the same spot again and again to take out farms. But you know what? I want those bastards out of my space.

    The difficult part about turrets is getting the right balance. If everyone can take them out easily, there's no point in having them. As it is, genuine good uses for rox turrets and forcewalls are few. They're already pretty weak in armor so that's out. If you make them take up TOO MUCH energy you cripple them, as people may need them in several different places at once, and if you put 5 in the throne room and suddenly you're bleeding, well, that's no good.

    I think a lot of farming issues can be cleared up by avoiding maps with 6 gens (*cough* Nakoja *cough*). I love making impenetrable fortresses out of the caves, but in general, it's not great for gameplay. If there IS a tweak in consumed energy it should be enough to make you THINK ABOUT turret placement, but not necessarily neglect it altogether. :shrug:
     
  15. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    Lithium:
    Well isn't the point that turrets can be spammed? This full time job is not only easy with some experience, but also pays a good sum. Maybe going as almost a full time gunner will counter this?
    I've seen a network of turrets where one was pointed at another to protect it, and the sheppard kept guard too.

    TalonHunter:
    *laughs*

    \/\/0RF:
    For the most part, I think I can hold my own with turrets and without going gunner, but most times I do depend on teammates. Like you said, there's a fine balance that must be maintained with these turrets, and I believe that locating more easily them could be good suggestion. Duncha just hate those ones perched up so high that you can't barely see them but they lock onto you? They can aim pretty high or low.
     
  16. Bishop F Gantry

    Bishop F Gantry New Member

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    I heard a rumor Rangers have the shock lance thats excellent against turrents but then it could only be just a rumour:lol:
     
  17. primemover

    primemover New Member

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    the only issues I had as a ranger concerning the turrets was if I didn't have my head on a swivel, ie ran into a situation without assessing all the risks, knowing exits, etc(like batman!), otherwise turrets were just free points, using that alieny gun(its been half a year since I have played, I forget the name). After a while you generally know where the turret hotspots are, and if a tech puts one in a spot that surprises me, he deserves the kill/points, but now I am on to him! :)
     
  18. {DE}Rarhok

    {DE}Rarhok Status: Unhealthy

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    Bishop Gantry:
    Shocklance for the ranger, rockets for the gunner.

    primemover:
    Dying to well placed turrets is alright with me too, but with turret spammage, there's more than enough decoys turrets that you dun necessarily need a few good spots.

    But turrets are basically free points if not used tactically. They can lock on from pretty far away.

    Most people here seems to want to leave turrets the way they are. I'm happy either way now that I've seen how the responses have been to them. ^^
     
  19. PRG

    PRG XMP Beta Tester

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    As an adjunct to my posts on the weapon balance thread, I'll say this. Deployables are fine currently. The real problems are elsewhere.. Frankly, if I can stroll into the node room on garden as a ranger with 6+(I think) turrets pointed at me and take precisely one MG turret round. (ohhh noooo down to what 92 health?), turrets really aren't in any need of nerfing.(I'm definitely not the"1337357" ranger around by anyone's stroke of imagination.) On the flip side, people end up sticking turrets in the damnest, most bizarre places and you get chewed up by them. GO FIGURE.. Anyways, a turret(or a bunch of them) should only really slow down a careful player, thereby giving time for a real(ie. human) player to decisively end the situation. In genera,l it works well currently. Real issues with turrets are mostly in conjunction with 7710 weapon balance.
     
  20. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    That's it exactly. Tech deploys in general, ideally should just slow you down and not pwn you (unless they're farming). In most cases that's how it is with me, they'll chew me up eventually but I'll take out several in the process.


    Oh yeah and they also have a limited frustum. If you get behind or beside them they are helpless.
     

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