Anti-Aliasing?

[ambershee]

Ok, not a whine thread, for a change.

I was under the impression that Fullscreen Anti-Aliasing was supposed to be possible under DX10 with UT3, but cannot seem to find any information regarding it. Anyone know how to enable FSAA?

 

[Anuban]

Well since UT3 has NO DX10 code whatsoever FSAA is not going to work just yet. When/If they ever release the DX10 patch them you'll be able to do so and also make use of the multisampling entry in the .ini file.

 

[Trustingsoup]

Well since UT3 has NO DX10 code whatsoever FSAA is not going to work just yet. When/If they ever release the DX10 patch them you'll be able to do so and also make use of the multisampling entry in the .ini file.

Thats not true. Before the crash there was a thread with pics showing that it did indeed work. You can force it using nhancer.

http://www.tweakguides.com/UT3_5.html

"Antialiasing Support: UT3 uses a technique called Deferred Lighting, which doesn't allow for the use of normal Anti-Aliasing, at least in DX9 mode. Epic has stated that when running in DX10 mode in Vista, the full version of the game will allow the use of AA. For the moment there are only two ways to force Anti-Aliasing in the game:

If you run a GeForce 8 series card you can rename the UT3Demo.exe file found under the \Program Files\Unreal Tournament 3 Demo\Binaries\ directory to BioShock.exe, and force Antialiasing through the Nvidia Forceware Control Panel using the existing Bioshock profile.
You can apply a brute force method called Supersampling - which works on pretty much any game - using a utility such as nHancer to set 'AA Compatibility mode 45' for the game profile. This is not recommended, as it has a major performance impact and can also cause visual glitches.

 

[hal]

Thats not true. Before the crash there was a thread with pics showing that it did indeed work. You can force it using nhancer.

I think those pics proved more that it didn't than it did.

 

[Trustingsoup]

I think those pics prooved more that it didn't than it did.

The first pics were crap but further down the thread there were good pics. Brizz had responded soon after the good pics were up. Maybe he'll remember. Damn crash!!!!!!

 

[Phopojijo]

The first pics were crap but further down the thread there were good pics. Brizz had responded soon after the good pics were up. Maybe he'll remember. Damn crash!!!!!!

Actually that's completely and utterly false.

The issue with Antialiasing HDR is that you need to Antialias at a certain specific time in the rendering pipe. Unfortunately with deferred rendering -- in DX9 there's no easy (or even moderately complex -- heck it's next to f'ckin impossible) way to edit the deferred buffers.

What this hack does is antialiases at the wrong time.

This is fine for MOST circumstances -- IE: If the difference in intensity between the two objects being antialiased is minimal (They're both lit about the same amount).

He's an example of where the hack fails

[screenshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Phopojijo/bioshockaa.jpg[/screenshot]

The red circles/arrows are where the hack fails. The blue circles/arrows are where the hack just happens to give the correct answer.

So in summary

The truth is you will not get true antialiasing until DX10 is enabled in the engine, like it is in Gears of War -- because in DX10 you are able to access the deferred buffers and do the antialiasing at the proper time

That being said -- if you don't suffer crashes as a result of it and you have extra framerate to spare -- a hack is better than nothing. Enjoy the benefits that it does give.

But yea -- it's not a lie. There's just a hack that under certain circumstances happens to produce the correct results.

 

[Trustingsoup]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Anuban]

Actually that's completely and utterly false.

The issue with Antialiasing HDR is that you need to Antialias at a certain specific time in the rendering pipe. Unfortunately with deferred rendering -- in DX9 there's no easy (or even moderately complex -- heck it's next to f'ckin impossible) way to edit the deferred buffers.

What this hack does is antialiases at the wrong time.

This is fine for MOST circumstances -- IE: If the difference in intensity between the two objects being antialiased is minimal (They're both lit about the same amount).

He's an example of where the hack fails

[screenshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Phopojijo/bioshockaa.jpg[/screenshot]

The red circles/arrows are where the hack fails. The blue circles/arrows are where the hack just happens to give the correct answer.

So in summary

The truth is you will not get true antialiasing until DX10 is enabled in the engine, like it is in Gears of War -- because in DX10 you are able to access the deferred buffers and do the antialiasing at the proper time

That being said -- if you don't suffer crashes as a result of it and you have extra framerate to spare -- a hack is better than nothing. Enjoy the benefits that it does give.

But yea -- it's not a lie. There's just a hack that under certain circumstances happens to produce the correct results.

Finally someone around the net who actually understands the full issue .. thanks man because I had gotten tired explaining this tbh.

 

[Anuban]

Thats not true. Before the crash there was a thread with pics showing that it did indeed work. You can force it using nhancer.

Also this method where you force multi-sampling AA not only is incomplete but it depends on the driver. for example AA in the latest Nvidia beta drivers is broken so it cannot even be forced at all. But it is necessary for Vista 32 bit 8800GT users since it fixes a major bug in Gateway and Torlan.

 

[Phopojijo]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

But yea... if the map you play is fairly uniformly lit -- the hack will provide near-perfect results.

But it's still just a hack. Not no MS conspiracy like commonly shouted in most webforums.

And actually if you see the screenshot I posted... Antialiasing is actually in use everywhere. The reason why you see jaggies is because the buffer blends... but they blend to the wrong value... which ends up looking exactly like the jaggies you're trying to remove. It's ironic

 

[-n7-]

AA rapes fps in UT3 sadly.

Not worth it at all right now.

 

[Godfrey.Payans]

Whatever happened to OpenGL rendering? Could that be a solution to not having AA in Windows, or will the Mac and Linux versions of UT3, if they ever get made, look inferior to the PC one?

 

[Phopojijo]

Whatever happened to OpenGL rendering? Could that be a solution to not having AA in Windows, or will the Mac and Linux versions of UT3, if they ever get made, look inferior to the PC one?

From what I read.. OGL has HDR+AA in their latest API.. according to ATi.. which is odd how it's not nVidia...

MAY be mistaken though.

 

[Anuban]

Also this method where you force multi-sampling AA not only is incomplete but it depends on the driver. for example AA in the latest Nvidia beta drivers is broken so it cannot even be forced at all. But it is necessary for Vista 32 bit 8800GT users since it fixes a major bug in Gateway and Torlan.

Newer drivers are out now ... 169.32 ... that fix AA so now you can use the control panel to force AA ... I know that it works in Vista for certain. The performance hit is kind of high even for 4x when you have everything else maxed. But still it definitely helps in some situations while in others it does nothing at all.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

The first pics were crap but further down the thread there were good pics. Brizz had responded soon after the good pics were up. Maybe he'll remember. Damn crash!!!!!!

The original pics that were showed were absolutely not anti-aliased. If the guy was losing frames it's because he was being faked into believing it was true by the video card overheating or something.

Later on, it was shown that you can get certain kinds of antialiasing to work, but they also showed that FSAA(the fastest and best kind of anti-aliasing) will not work.

 

[Trustingsoup]

Actually that's completely and utterly false.

The issue with Antialiasing HDR is that you need to Antialias at a certain specific time in the rendering pipe. Unfortunately with deferred rendering -- in DX9 there's no easy (or even moderately complex -- heck it's next to f'ckin impossible) way to edit the deferred buffers.

What this hack does is antialiases at the wrong time.

This is fine for MOST circumstances -- IE: If the difference in intensity between the two objects being antialiased is minimal (They're both lit about the same amount).

He's an example of where the hack fails

[screenshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Phopojijo/bioshockaa.jpg[/screenshot]

The red circles/arrows are where the hack fails. The blue circles/arrows are where the hack just happens to give the correct answer.

So in summary

The truth is you will not get true antialiasing until DX10 is enabled in the engine, like it is in Gears of War -- because in DX10 you are able to access the deferred buffers and do the antialiasing at the proper time

That being said -- if you don't suffer crashes as a result of it and you have extra framerate to spare -- a hack is better than nothing. Enjoy the benefits that it does give.

But yea -- it's not a lie. There's just a hack that under certain circumstances happens to produce the correct results.

Yeah, I was suffering from foot in mouth disease.

 

[Phopojijo]

The original pics that were showed were absolutely not anti-aliased. If the guy was losing frames it's because he was being faked into believing it was true by the video card overheating or something.

Later on, it was shown that you can get certain kinds of antialiasing to work, but they also showed that FSAA(the fastest and best kind of anti-aliasing) will not work.

...? FSAA stands for Full-Screen Antialiasing. It's kinda "not a type" of antialiasing. (Unless you meant MSAA for Multisampling)

That's not the problem -- no antialiasing can really work. It's not that anything fails -- it's just that the frame buffer is inaccessible.

Think of it like a box -- black box if you will -- locked -- there's a Mr. Potato Head in the box. You want to play with it -- but you can't... it's in the box. That's the same with Deferred Rendering -- you just can't access that Mr. Potato Head.

What the hack does is it edits what we see come out of that box -- we still can't touch Mr. Potato Head... but we can attempt to perceive it differently.

DX10 solves this by giving you the key to the black box. DX9 just doesn't have that functionality. ((It's much more complicated than that -- but I don't really know the hardcore programming issues with it -- I only know the practical outputs of it.))

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I know, but what I'm saying is that with MSAA and SSAA, certain areas do appear to be anti aliased even though it may be ruining other areas.

 

[Anuban]

Broken AA is broken AA period ... what is this with acceptable levels of AA not working ... the facts are the facts and it is really funny to see people who just not able to accept it. AA only works in DX10 if you are dealing with UE3 based games ... forcing anything means it does not work to spec and is therefore broken. And as there is no DX10 code as has been said many times, in UT3 that means AA is broken and does not work ... if people want to say it works but is buggy I will just laugh and say whatever. Play Gears of War on Vista and turn on AA ... now look at all areas of a level ... now that is what working AA looks like. Hopefully Epic puts some DX10 code in the game and it doesn't take some absurdly long time like a year or something.

 

[Phopojijo]

Broken AA is broken AA period ... what is this with acceptable levels of AA not working ... the facts are the facts and it is really funny to see people who just not able to accept it. AA only works in DX10 if you are dealing with UE3 based games ... forcing anything means it does not work to spec and is therefore broken. And as there is no DX10 code as has been said many times, in UT3 that means AA is broken and does not work ... if people want to say it works but is buggy I will just laugh and say whatever. Play Gears of War on Vista and turn on AA ... now look at all areas of a level ... now that is what working AA looks like. Hopefully Epic puts some DX10 code in the game and it doesn't take some absurdly long time like a year or something.

Broken AA is broken AA period -- true. But in the mean time -- or people without Vista -- might as well let them get *part way* to proper antialiasing. I mean -- it doesn't hurt for the most part.