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All sounds nice but 1 thing remains to be fixed....

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by kafros, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. kafros

    kafros F1 manta tryouts

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    .....and that is:

    How to get all Counter Strike players who are dug up behind boxes in the 2-3 poppular maps into this new game. I hust hate seeing all servers empty of players for UT2004 while CS servers are full.

    The biggest strength (for me) of UT2004 is its deep gameplay but it is at the same time the greatest weakness (noob unfriendly). I dont want EPIC to change anything but I think that new players will not be able to come into a game that has:

    1. 9 weapons with 2 firing modes each
    2. advanced movement (double dodge + jump , wall jumps, etc...)
    3. insane kills/hours rate (being a begginer and getting killed every 5 secs is no fun)


    So if EPIC takes any feedback from this forum (polls?) I hope you all ask for this:

    How to introduce the advanced aspects of the game while playing in SP, so that new players will be better prepared for on-line.

    I like the gameplay suggestions in this forum. Keep producing them :)
     
  2. Nemephosis

    Nemephosis Earning my Infrequent Flier miles

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    Why the hell do we want CS players playing this? If they can't handle weapons that do more than "shoot bullets", they deserve their "Gaming for Dummies".
     
  3. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    Good Idea, but it needs to be followed up!

    Some kind of tutorial system would be a very smart idea, and should be included in any demo as well. Something that goes over the basics, and allows players to learn enough of the "framework" of the game to at least get an idea of how to play. UT is a tough game to learn for a new player. It's much faster than most games out there and there's a lot to think about. A tutorial system can only help to ease new players into the game.

    A simple series of well-made tutorial movies would be a great help. Below is a list (in no particular order) of tutorial movies I'd like to see included in the game, in addition to the gametype specific tutorials. All tutorials should be easily viewible via the in-game GUI so that they can be viewed at any time by a player. A synopsis in the game manual wouldn't hurt either, but a full set of tutorials in-game is the way to go:

    1) Basic Movement - A rundown of the basic movement ie. jump/double-jump, dodge, dodge jump.
    2) Basic Weapons - Again, a basic rundown of each weapon in the game, how to use it, and what it's good for and not good for.
    3) Advanced Movement - The more advanced moves explained. Dodge-jump, wall dodge and wall kick etc. (if they make it into the game). Movie also shows examples of proper usage for all the moves in-game.
    4) Advanced Weapons - A more in-depth look at the weapons and their uses and examples of good usage of each weapon in-game.
    5) General Tips - General advice for players, including some of the basic groundrules and tips that cover all the gametypes.
    6) Etiquette - The general does and don'ts of the UT series, helpful for players coming from games with very different playing styles. A Counter-Strike player might think it perfectly normal to sit behind a box and snipe, something that's looked down on in UT etc.
     
  4. 1337

    1337 1337

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    I think UT2004 feeds off the player base that are tired of cookie cutter games like CS. Getting rid of weapons and alt fire modes would only hurt the game imo. I think having a vast amount of weaponry and vehicles would only make the game more interesting to the new players. I'd rather get shock comboed, run over, torn to shreds with a flak cannon, etc... than get fragged by less variety of weapons. Spawn rape is an aspect of TDM and DM in almost every fast paced game. So if newcomers don't wish to be spawn raped they should play Conquest mode or CTF. DM is all about competition. If someone doesn't know how to play the game that well, they can't expect to get a kill on someone who put lots of hours into a game learning skills necessary to be competitive.
     
  5. Razor_Shadow

    Razor_Shadow New Member

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    I'd rather CS noobs are kept playing CS, where they belong. UT is for hardcore gamers. UT has always been and will always be the ultimate fps challenge. It is hard, it is tough, and the learning curve is a bitch,but once you get it right, its also the most rewarding game to play online. Any attempts to make it more "novice friendly" would n00bify it. Epic has done everything right so far to make the game more popular (envy i mean) and bring back players from the original ut. For it to appeal to yet more people all it needs is more sponsors/advertising. But,again, UT will NEVER appeal to those kids that play CS. The ut crowd is older,more mature,and more skilled.
     
  6. Go&nd

    Go&nd Meow

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    I think this is a great thread and I strongly support Selerox's ideas. I believe the game and the community would greatly benefit from having a deeper, more functional tutorial system built into the game.

    And for people obsessing on CS: I believe kafros just mentioned it as a single example and he didn't in any way imply that Epic should simplify UT just to appeal to CS players. Try not to get hung up on just CS while discussing this important topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2005
  7. Zur

    Zur surrealistic mad cow

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    I'm against this. Each time I play on a server and get "gangbanged" by 3-4 players at the same moment, I think the change of weapons from UT->UT2003->UT2004 already help beginners. Do any more changes and it will just drive off talent as all you have to do to get a frag is to spam in the general direction of a target.
     
  8. Daedalus

    Daedalus I don't even...

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    why the hell do we want a bunch of dumbass jocks who cant stand loosing and inject themselves with testosterone playing our games?

    Let the dumb bastards stay in CS and let them stay on their 450mhz Pentium II computers.
     
  9. CyMek

    CyMek Dead but not gone.

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    I think CS is getting a worse rep then it deserves.
    <--- plays cs:s

    I will give you this: MANY of the players are foul, cruel, dumb, etc. but then again MANY are not, UT has this as well, although not as many lamers.

    I really think Kafros is on to something here. I had an idea, inspired loosely from half life2.

    Make a tutorial ladder that is optional, so that the people who have already played can skip it, but the newies can get better on. Start out with something like UT's Tutorial level, so that the player can learn how to get ready. Then, make a ladder with maps and AI that are geared towards honing different skills, although not as specific as say a skilltrials map. Maybe for example a map that has a number of very obvious places for wallkicks or dodgeramps, and maybe a flythrough that suggests doing those, with good pickups at the top. And then maybe another map where the rocket launcher is prominently placed with lots of adventageous areas to use it, and a breif 30-second clip explaining the potential uses at the begining. Then change the AI in the level so that they use the rockets whenever possible. Then rinse and repeat with other weapons and things that need teaching. Lastly, make maps skippable and repeatable so that you can master and move on.
     
  10. FireCrack

    FireCrack New Member

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    I have played CS and i have learnt it's ways. The real thing aout CS is that you find one weapon you're good with then you sxtick with it, you dont always have to go hunting for new gunds, you only have to learn your favorite, none else.
     
  11. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    <-- Played CS:S three times offline and never wanted to play it again, online or otherwise.

    Some sort of tutorial system like what Selerox suggested is definitely the way to go to get new players to the new UT. CS whores will stay CS whores no matter how UT changes, so don't worry about them. Let them and their clans develop "pro strats" on how to dominate Dust using AK-47s. Meanwhile I'll be telefragging people and flinging flak shells 'til I die.

    That's why it's so appealing. Every time you play it's exactly the same as the last time. People will do the same things over and over on the same two maps all day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2005
  12. Mr.Magnetichead

    Mr.Magnetichead Banned

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    I don't want CS players playing Unreal. There are already enough INA jar heads floating about ruining things.
     
  13. Nosnos

    Nosnos Nali

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    Best way is to make tutorials like Selerox suggested... When playing online you see a lot of people (well you used to anyway) that didn't know the first thing about movement and the weapons... They accused players of cheating when they saw the "fly around" the map when all they did was using dodgejumps and walljumps... The tutorials should be interactive though so they get to do the things shown to them before they get to move on...

    And I dont know about getting players from CS to play UT, that will just never happen, what I would like is to get players from all the UT- and Quake-games. Extremly unlikely but it would be nice ^^

    This isn't about SP-play but I read somewhere that they were going to use a statssystem to find suitable servers for players... If they manage to implement this in a good way I think it's going to help out a lot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  14. Mr.Magnetichead

    Mr.Magnetichead Banned

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    There are interactive tutorials already.

    They're called BOTS.
     
  15. Nosnos

    Nosnos Nali

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    Well if the bots showed players how to do all the "fancy" moves they do then it would be a tutorial... now it's pretty useless except for learning how to aim tbh
     
  16. Mr.Magnetichead

    Mr.Magnetichead Banned

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    Fancy moves? What like...jumping.
     
  17. Nosnos

    Nosnos Nali

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    Dont the bots dodgejump/walldodge in UT2004? I haven't played them so I wouldnt know... but I really though they did and many consider that to be fancy ;)
     
  18. kafros

    kafros F1 manta tryouts

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    Most of you have mistunderstood my post (apart from Selerox, Go&nd, and a couple more ppl).

    I want UT to remain as hardcore as it is but on the same time provide a means for new players to start-up without being raped online. This will increase the player base which is something that will (finally) fill up the empty servers (at least in Greece where I live).

    I mentioned CS because of its player base, no other reason. I DO NOT like CS.

    Selerox ideas are a good start.

    I started getting better after reading guides and tips on this forum and watching some gameplay videos. It would be much better if all these were somehow in UT2004 Single Player. Not all ppl go out reading forums...

    Do you do polls that you can send to EPIC? If yes do you think this can be a poll cantidate?
     
  19. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    Attitude > Skill

    Wow, the ammount of elitist wankers in this forum appears to be a lot higher than I thought. This is not a CS thing. This is about helping people new to the game. It's about helping to let this community grow. It's about being a welcoming community.

    What is the problem with that?

    I've played CS:S for two months over winter. I still play a couple of CS:S games for a change of pace now and then. I see more bad attitude and lame behaviour in a single day playing UT than I saw in two weeks of playing CS:S :mad:

    I genuinely don't see the problem with anything that helps new players and brings more people into the game. Yes, the more people play, the more idiots you might get. But as a proporttion it won't increase. The community right now has enough of them to spare anyway.

    Personally, I find the "we don't want them, they're not good enough for our game" attitude distgusting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  20. Mr.Magnetichead

    Mr.Magnetichead Banned

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    Then your arguments have no basis.

    You lose.
     

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