A little bit of evidence so you know I'm not being lazy

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
1,758
0
0
43
Ottawa, Ontario
Just a teaser. So you know I'm not sitting on my laurels but actually doing stuff related
to this.

First of all, I had addressed the issue that TacticalOps was under suspicion about using copyrighted material as well as intellectual property. This was, of course, dismissed by Shag, Barra, BloodKnight, Rojazz, et al. I admitted that this was nothing but speculation, but that I would investigate it further.

Comments from my original post are bolded. Shag's comments in his post (found here)

He claimed (and I admit that as of this writing, these allegations are nothing but accusations, though I am currently investigating) that Tactical Ops stole other mods/games sound effects (namely Firearms HL and Rainbow 6.)

The best P/TC category also stipulates that no conversion may win if it contains any sort of copyrighted material.


5) We didn't break any rule, any law, nor steal nor rip any content from any other game / mod.
6) We do use some copyrighted material that will be removed in beta 2. (Textures from HL/CS (in a few maps) and the ladder and buy item sounds from HL). That's the only 'illegal' content in our mod. These will of course be removed in Beta 2 to be shipped with UT GOY.


Yep. Textures from Half-Life and Counter-Strike. I love how the word illegal is put in quotes, as if it wasn't really illegal just because it was used to win a contest by blatantly voiding the rules (you can find the rules at the Official MSU contest site)

And apparently taking textures/sounds from other games/mods and entering them into a contest that says no copyright material right on it, is not breaking the rules of the contest, or any copyright laws, and its certainly not stealing or ripping content from other games/mods in an uncredited, unmentioned format! If any of you doubt that taking content from a free mod is actually a crime, refer to RaekwoN (Infiltration mapper)'s problem using textures from Counter-Strike (which he scrapped and recreated 100% original textures before release).

The next comment was also blatantly denied by all involved. It slowly turned from "we are not, and never have been receiving money from Epic" into "we have not received any money from Epic yet". Epic also provided them with all sorts of in-house support. These quotes are taken directly from a man working at Epic in graphics: "Epics going to be helping SWAT for UT out with new skins (really cool ones) that John Muellor will be doing.." "hes also doing a few weapon skins too. And Epic will be helping them with world textures." "cause Swat has gained some favoiritism over that mod that first came out..forget the name" "Yeah Epics good about funding mods..but a word off the record to you..theyll cut you off or go with another mod in a blink of an eye if someone elses mod is better" This is proof positive that Epic DOES play favorites, and doesn't give
a damn with what the community thinks -- they make it a popularity contest, and they offer increased exposure to games that do. (Rojazz admits this in his own piece, that you can find within Shag's aforementioned comments)

It turns out Infogrames was funding Tactical Ops.

Just like the 2 other mods to be featured on GOY we will receive help and money from EPIC this is true. Up to now we haven't received a single cent. (the date was wrong on my computer i wanted to say up to now today the 15th august. You can copy that if you want).

Apparently because they haven't YET received a cheque, they aren't really on the payroll. Apparently. I was considered a full-time employee during my five weeks training, and two weeks working on the desk. My cheque, after arriving via mail after those two weeks desk work, took five days to show up in the mail box and another day to clear. That's one day shy of two months of being an official employee earning backpay without having "a single cent" show up in my hands or my bank account. Just because the cheque is in the mail does not mean there was no reason to mail the cheque.

You are completly right i cannot stop you from lying. I'm not trying to stop you (or whatever other paranoiac feeling you might have).
I didn't like the idea that people could believe your lies. Big brother is not there i'm affraid.


Yes, I was actually going to withdraw. I wrote a praising email to Shag saying it was great how he came forward and how I would reconsider my position, since an admission of guilt was all I was ever gunning for in the first place. This comment made that consideration come to an abrupt end. Attempting to STILL call me a liar in the face of this is a pretty blatant ploy that we refer to in North America as Spin Doctoring. In case any of the overseas readers aren't familiar with this term, a spin doctor is somebody who puts a spin on the truth to make that truth seem more favourable (or less damaging) to the party involved.

On a side note, I saw something on Something Awful that really made me stand up and take note. To any of you who doubt that Gamespy (and their affiliated "planet" sites) and the gaming community in general could be dirty, take a look at this. Apparently he's doing his own research into it, and will have more later. I've never known Lowtax to fall through on his word.

Anyways, here's the quote:

On a similar note of "fucked companies", I've been talking with a bunch of fellow ex-Gamespy employees lately. Boy do they have some stories to tell. Turns out that company is in even worse shape than I knew of (and that was pretty bad to begin with). I'm not going to get into any specifics yet, but here are some of the juicier tidbits:

The entire music department (RadioSpy) was recently fired in one single day. Keep in mind that this is the division of the company that Michael Ovitz invested millions of dollars into. No clue as to how that will affect their stock or financial holdings. Their website hasn't been updated since last week.
Company owner / founder Mark Surfas is going to the Newport Beach courthouse for his second DUI charge. Former GSI employees will be testifying against him. I have been talking with a witness that was present when Mark was pulled over by the Police and he has personally confirmed all of this.
When I worked there, they had special servers set up with gigs and gigs of illegal warez / programs / mp3s. I don't know if they've cleaned up since then, but I've been told they haven't. If the Software Piracy Association wants to have a field day, they should swing by their offices sometime.

All of these facts have been verified by other ex-employees from the sinking ship that is GSI. Yes, I know that you're as shocked as I am to see actual legit news on the front page of Something Awful, but I'm just sick of how GSI treats its employees. Everybody outside the company thinks that it's just a bunch of hardcore gamers that spend all day playing Counterstrike and listening to Fargo talk about the hot girl he saw outside the Cinnabun in the mall, but there is some serious bad blood inside that company and I wouldn't advise getting within a 500 foot radius of that place. Sheesh, the more I'm exposed to the gaming network industry, the more I realize how utterly awful and slimy it is.


And don't think that this is the end of it. Like I said, this is just to show you guys that I'm actually doing work here and not just sitting on my thumbs.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>5) We didn't break any rule, any law, nor steal nor rip any content from any other game / mod.
6) We do use some copyrighted material that will be removed in beta 2. (Textures from HL/CS (in a few maps) and the ladder and buy item sounds from HL). That's the only 'illegal' content in our mod. These will of course be removed in Beta 2 to be shipped with UT GOY.[/quote]

God, that's funny. I like how he says "We haven't used ANY copyrighted material!" and then completely reverses himself and says "Well, we did use SOME copyrighted material, but we're gonna' get rid of it in Beta 2.". Keep digging for the truth Mojo.

-Keiichi

Kei-sig.jpg
 

DeadeyeDan[ToA]

de oppresso liber
Mar 2, 2000
969
0
0
Tucson, AZ, US
www.clantoa.com
Hmmm. Is it me or are your sigs getting weirder every second, BP?

Fear the Pickle.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!
 
May 22, 2000
1,042
0
0
Amsterdamned
resolute.gamepoint.net
Inf, SF, TO...

HELL I PLAY EM ALL!! WITH PHUN. LOTS OF PHUN!!!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
BTW: everybody has to check the new Inf ingame characters, simply because they are brilliant..And everybody has to check the new SF levels from Desperado#2, simply because they rock...And everybody has to check the model of OT's 'raging bull', simply because it looks smooth...AND IT'S ALL FOR FREE!!!

GET MY F****** POINT!!!!!!!!
*sigh* /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

resolute.gamepoint.net

[This message was edited by Alien [RIP] on Aug 15, 2000 at 20:26.]
 

Dark Knight

New Member
Mar 29, 2001
182
0
0
Visit site
Comment

---Mojo

Mind if I make a constructive criticism?...
No....?
Right here it is.....

I see what you are trying to do here , and I agree that if there is some foul play , it should be exposed , BUT (imo that is) you should have obtained all of the "evidence" that you needed before you started your campaign.

One of the first "rules" that law students are thought is to "never never ask a question if you do not already know the answer"

From reading your posts I get the impression that you are going off in certain directions unsure of where you want to end up.

To sum up , I feel that you would achieve more if you were to get all of the facts and fiqures that are needed before you make any sort of allegations.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I used to rock and roll all night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky.
-- Homer J. Simpson
 

Alpha_9

Infiltration lead level designer
Jun 1, 2000
1,493
0
0
55
Washington State
Confused about something...

This is regarding the "Make Something Unreal" contest, and Shag's admission that the T.O. team used material from other games/mods. Here's what he actually admits to:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>6) We do use some copyrighted material that will be removed in beta 2. (Textures from HL/CS (in a few maps) and the ladder and buy item sounds from HL). That's the only 'illegal' content in our mod. These will of course be removed in Beta 2 to be shipped with UT GOY.[/quote]

Now, my question is this: Is Shag actually admitting the use of these copyrighted materials in the SWAT beta 1.0 they submitted to the contest, or only in the subsequent T.O. beta 1.x they released as a preview to beta 2.0?

The connection doesn't seem clear to me. Unless there's something he said somewhere else specifically admitting to using these illegal materials in SWAT beta 1.0 itself, I'm afraid I don't see the admission on his part that they broke that MSU rule. Unless I'm missing something. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

More generally, there's only one bit of advice I would offer you, Mojo, in your battle to find/reveal the truth. I know you're a very passionate guy, and you certainly don't suffer fools. Ever. And I don't blame you. But maybe your posts in these forums would be more effective if they were less emotional and vindictive. Maybe if you communicate in a more cool and calculating manner, your points will come across with more gravity. You might even intimidate your opponents, especially if they have something to hide.

Remember, the boxer who wins is the one who uses disciplined technique. The one who flails angrily gets cut to ribbons every time...

For what it's worth, I wish you luck. In the end, the truth is everything. I hope it comes out in the end, whatever it may be, and this whole difficult episode can be settled once and for all. For the good of this whole UT mod community.
<h2><font face="symbol">
a 1001</font></h2>

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne
 

Bad.Mojo

Commander in Chief o' the BMA
Mar 17, 2000
1,758
0
0
43
Ottawa, Ontario
Yeah, the 1.0 is the one they're talking about. the 1.1 or 1.2 or whatever it was beta was just a patch to fix some clipping problems and that kind of stuff -- the graphics and sounds remained the same, so yes, in fact, they did submit the copyrighted stuff to MSU. Here's the beta patch press release: "Fixes skin problems, level changing crash, and SW-Avail map clipping." Just some of the problems with green skin, clipping, and crashing between levels.

As for you Dark Knight, I already KNOW the answers to the questions I'm asking. That's not the matter of it. I already know where I am right now, and I know what's going on, and all I'm doing is amassing as much testimony as I can now to prove it. As to where I'm going? Well, I'm aiming for the truth, nothing more, and nothing less. I don't plan on lying or twisting anything around. Not in favour of anybody, and not disfavouring anybody else either. I already know way more than any of you right now (well, in regards to this particular subject, of course,) so trust me when I say that. The only reason why I posted what I did here in this thread is because it corroberated what I said in my original thread on this issue; that TO was getting funding and all sorts of other in-house non-monetary support; that they knowingly used copyrighted material; that they knowingly violated the rules of the Make Something Unreal contest. And then attempted to lie to cover it up. And then admitted to it, but still tried to claim I was a liar. And it was all public, and by a party involved, and said party was not me, but an acused. So, that's why I released THAT tidbit of information.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">
 

Dark Knight

New Member
Mar 29, 2001
182
0
0
Visit site
Dont get me wrong....

Thats okay then Mojo /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I obviously got the wrong impression of your actions. I know what you mean when you talk about not being able to release the info that you have on the matter.
Anyway , best of luck with the research and if I can help ya in any way then just let me know.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

P.S. and btw - did you get that mail I sent you?

I used to rock and roll all night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky.
-- Homer J. Simpson
 

Alpha_9

Infiltration lead level designer
Jun 1, 2000
1,493
0
0
55
Washington State
Uh-oh...

It would appear Shag has some explaining to do, at least regarding the issue of using copyrighted materials in the MSU contest. Indeed he appears to openly admit it. Yikes...
<h2><font face="symbol">
a 1001</font></h2>

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
Something fishy IS going on...

Well, I'm by no means on expert on this whole argument but, from what I've seen, Bad.Mojo has posted a ton of rock-solid evidence that has yet to be discredited. The fact that TO submitted copyrighted material to the MSUC. The fact that the TO team said "We didn't submit ANY copyrighted material" and then completely reversed themselves and said "Well, we did use SOME copyrighted material, but we're gonna' get rid of it". The fact that Bloodknight DID start all this by bashing Infiltration/SF and then not apologizing for it (yes, despite what Red Rascal would have you believe, I've read the entire log and Bloodknight did start it). He came into #infiltration and practically the first words out of his mouth were "Infiltration and SF suck. SWAT is sooo much better". Granted, he was retaliating because someone had been bashing SWAT first but, for Christs sake, it wasn't an INF/SF TEAM MEMBER that had been doing it. You claim Bad.Mojo is doing nothing but making personal attacks on people, yet the only personal attacks I've seen have been directed at Bad.Mojo himself.

Also, trying to discredit Bad.Mojo by calling him a paranoid liar is simply irresponsible. In the 7 months that I've been actively posting on these forums I have not once known Bad.Mojo to tell a lie or bend the truth. He has always acted with the utmost intelligence and maturity. The truth is that his site was taken down with no warning. The truth is that he was wronged. I have yet to see anyone apologize for any of this. Thats all Bad.Mojo wanted. A simple apology. If PU and the TO team would pull their heads out of their asses and say "I'm sorry" this would all dissappear like a bad habit, but it looks like that isn't happening.

-Keiichi

[DISCLAIMER]
The above is my opinion. I'm not some sheep following Bad.Mojo blindly. I don't have all the facts but, from what I know, something fishy is going on. I'm not quoting anyone, I'm just stating examples, so don't go trying to discredit me like you're trying to discredit Bad.Mojo.
[END DISCLAIMER]

Kei-sig.jpg


[This message was edited by Keiichi on Aug 27, 2000 at 08:49.]